You guys are making me want to get back into IIDX, especially since I have all day every day to play when I finish chores. :p

Is it true that Acmebowl has the upgrade kit for distortion sitting somewhere in the back?  This is what "Uhhh" told me a couple sundays ago.   And is there any chance at all that Acmebowl will ever consider getting one of the more recent IIDX releases? (Empress!  )



Haha, do they even make Seimitsu keys for IIDX? I thought they were better for shmups/danmaku anyway.



Try picking up a copy of Empress when it gets released this October.  It's going to span two discs and will include over 180 songs; double the typical amount you would find in any other CS release of IIDX.  The second disc will contain the most popular and most highly regarded tracks spanning the entire IIDX franchise, from 1st style all the way up to DJ Troopers.

It'd be a great way to jumpstart your IIDX addiction all over again~

Here's the tracklist:

http://vjarmy.com/wiki/index.php/CS_EMPRESS

I don't think Bill would consider IIDX. It did absolutely abysmally last time. He probably shouldn't listen to me anyway; the last game I recommended for purchase ended up never even coming close to paying itself off and is now in danger of either being sold to me or moved to Narrows.

that wouldn't happen to be TGM3 would it? D:
and I just started getting decent at it too....

Ah, that's too bad...  I guess writing a proposal letter would be a waste of time, huh?  I wouldn't mind writing one but I don't want it falling upon deaf ears.

What about jubeat/uBeat or DJM Technika? 

Unfortunately, arcade operators are bound by what's profitable. The problem with IIDX is that, before it even comes CLOSE to paying itself off, the version in the cabinet is considered "old" and everyone gets all whiny about it. We had Eighth Style for something like a year and a half to two years and  around the time of Happy Sky CS, everyone was pretty much wondering why they were still paying to play eighth style.

I've never found IIDX to be too crappy as a home version, though. I have a desk, some phone books, and a 20'' LCD with a no lag "gaming mode" propped up on a shelf, and it simulates the arcade experience enough for me.

A while back I was asking people I knew who didn't play rhythm games about the machine and asked if they would play it or not and they said it looked intimidating. Those same people will try out DDR on occassion at the arcade. I can't pinpoint it, but something about Beatmania's presentation doesn't appeal to casual players.  If you look at what was popular at Avalon (DMX, DDR, GF, Para for a while) and a few other arcades I have frequented these rhythm games all have bright color schemes and covers of recognizable songs. This is anecdotal evidence of course, but I'm sure it's part of the equation. I also think the initial learning curve is very easy in DDR / DMX / Para because of easy beginner charts and not as many buttons to worry about. Another interesting thing to note is that when avalon had GF and DM, GF was significantly more popular than DM. This leads me to believe my thing about initial difficulty is true. So all in all I don't think IIDX will ever besuccessful in America, except for isolated locations that have a significant amount of gaming specialists (like TGA) who frequent the arcade.

What you say is true though- beatmaniaIIDX does look intimidating, it does have an incredibly steep learning curve and it's a very purist/hardcore game.  But that's probably the very reason why it will never do well in America.  

It's an unfortunate but real issue that arcades are simply not that big in America compared to asian countries.  Most people here prefer console/PC based gameplay and would much rather stay indoors at the comfort of their own home rather than driving out to some arcade to pay money per game session.  

I want to avoid using terminology such as "casuals" or "hardcore gamers," but when it comes to general appeal, I can understand why IIDX wouldn't do so well in America as compared to more "friendly looking" games like DDR or Taiko no Tatsujin.  

IIDX imposes a very daunting aura just because of how the machine is designed, with it's sheet-metal exterior, pulsating lights and scrolling LCDs.  Hardcore gamers that play it obsessively though end up spending gargantuan amounts of money consistently though, because of its unrealistically unreasonable challenge.  But because of how difficult it is, those that get hooked keep coming back for more in the hopes of getting over the next hurdle that lies before them.

I'm one of those types but the fact of the matter is, games like DDR have garnered a much bigger fanbase in America. Strictly speaking from a business standpoint, the answer is obvious as to which audience to cater to when managing an arcade.

I've already realized this since a long time ago, but I keep praying one of these days an arcade in WA will bring at least one of the themed releases over.  I would be more than content with a Happy Sky or even Red cabinet.  

edit: I can't believe people were complaining about the 8th style machine.  Just be thankful with what you have!  8th style is still IIDX, and there are still some great tracks to play from that release.  That is truly unfortunate.

And yes, I would more than likely end up spending half of my paycheck on the game if I was given the opportunity to do so.  But maybe that's just my addiction talking~

I also don't mind playing IIDX at home.  I've gone to great lengths to recreate the arcade experience as much as possible, but the problem is I'll never meet anyone to socialize with or to battle against.  IIDX isn't connected to XBLive or PSNetwork, therefore my only real option is to do meet-ups or to bring the game over to a friend's house.  It's quite limiting...  But then again, this is America and finding people like that in the first place even at an arcade would be highly unlikely.  

Maybe the release of DJ Hero and Scratch will create a slightly higher demand for "DJ-ing" games...  Nah, that's just wishful thinking.

edit: Also, the more recent versions of IIDX have released very useful Beginner modes with extremely easy notecharts that literally almost anyone could pass.  There is also a tutorial mode, but it's entirely in japanese and is almost unecessary if you've already played other Bemani games.  Not that it would matter though if people don't even want to bother trying the game out in the first place, of course.

I should probably start out by saying by posting I'm not endorsing your fanboyism to IIDX, however your points are valid so I think I can still have a discussion with you.
I'd say Quake is extremely difficult at high levels (note how people have to stop playing when they get older), but it's very easy to initially get into due to having an easy objective (killing the other player). You can have a deep game but also have it user friendly. All in all IIDX suffers from KBM syndrome.

The real reason IIDX will not do well in America is because there are not enough arcades, which is how people get out of their comfort zones and discover new games. If arcades could be doing well enough to have a few specialist machines, then I'd imagine IIDX would grow for the same reason DDR did (flashy at high levels, brings crowds, has a strong and rabid community). If no one else is playing a game aroudn you... isn't that boring?

You know, I think it's funny that you're all talking about the fact that due to the absence of IIDX in arcades, there's nobody to meet up and talk about IIDX with - but we're all meeting up on these forums and talking about IIDX. I think the key is in the community, not in the arcades.

If, through these Bemani forums, we could build a bigger, wider-spread community, maybe some day something like IIDX would be worthwhile; one person dropping "half a paycheck" isn't really enough to float a game, especially because "a paycheck" can realistically be anything from 500 to 7,000 dollars, but if we had 15-20 people who each spent 4 hours 5 days a week just playing IIDX, that starts to get profitable.

Of course, that argument works better with other games because IIDX has a very high initial start up cost. I know a guy who has a IIDX machine in his garage and I could make a down payment on an average sized townhouse with what he spent buying it and continues to spend keeping it current.

Without arcades / machines there is no scene for arcade IIDX, so your point doesn't make sense at all.

Judging by the PNW's last experience with IIDX, community does not always help a game. People would rather nitpick and not look at the benefits of playing a game in the long run. People can't have a ridiculous attitude expecting everything to be perfect, which brings me to the next point.

The fact that there are so many mixes makes staying current very very expensive as you pointed out. So basically if you buy a machine you're gambling that a CS version won't kill the interest or that an upgrade is far off enough that people might help it break even.

Sounds like a great idea for an operator!

And I really doubt the community will grow that much more. Casual rhythm games are so easily accessible (and so popular) that most won't delve beyond those games. I've tried to get people I know to branch out into more serious music games but it never works, for the same reasons mentioned in the posts before.  I'd love to see the community grow, but how likely is that? In the end you have to ask yourself how much you love these games and how willing you are to put time into growing the community. To be honest, I'm not that interested in going arcade to arcade, board to board recruiting people for games. I would if I truly love the game. I don't really love IIDX. So if you truly love IIDX, level up the promotional aspect of this community and get the word out. If you can actually recruit more people to play a game like IIDX, serious props to you.

I didn't specify arcade IIDX - although I personally don't care too much about IIDX specifically, I've been playing rhythm games in general for something like 8 years now, and my first exposure to IIDX, like many others, was through someone bringing the CS version to a party. For years, even though there had never even been a machine in the state, there was a strong IIDX "scene" here because of the home versions. That's what I'm saying - you can have a community without arcade releases.

That's also what I was talking about in terms of growing the community. I would assume most of us have friends who don't play Bemani, or at least SOME kind of social life. Bring IIDX to a party!

Console games have killed the arcade. As Iori said, no arcade means no IIDX (or community). I did a lot of research into actually starting my own arcade, and the resounding conclusion I got was "don't do it". Put simply, as soon as any arcade game is available on console, player's stop paying for it in the arcade. DDR and the rhythm game community is a very rare exception to this trend.

I asked the hardcore fighting crowd over at Shoryuken.com and Dustloop.com about what they'd like to see in an arcade, and even they told me that once the console versions of Street Fighter IV and BlazBlue hit the US, they weren't planning on playing in the arcade anymore, unless on a whim. The gap between the quality of arcade games and home versions is non-existent now, and aside from gimmick games that require unique or special peripherals (DDR, IIDX, and even Time Crisis), there's no reason for people to go to the arcade, just to play games.

A community can exist without an arcade, but it is not nearly as successful as ones formed through personal meetings and get-togethers. I might be a bit older than most of you, and because of this I didn't have the internet pervading my childhood as much, but I imagine most of your closer friends were not met online, but in person. I think that (if this example is true) that you can understand how important meeting people face to face is in establishing an active, eager, and fun community.

What can we do to save the arcades or revitalize the community? I wish I knew. Hey, I didn't claim to have the answers, I just like to complain about the problems!

This has been my point all along - do we NEED an arcade to meet up face to face? What about just having a weekly forum gettogether somewhere public? It's not like just because you talk to someone over the internet FIRST you're never going to meet up with them in person... my first exposure to the Bemani community was online, and I've made some lifelong friendships with some of those people.

All of the close friends that I still have now were people who I talked to regularly both online and in person, to the point where I often can't deduce where I "met" them first.

which is why you have your little get togethers at your place, and I still have to go to one. I want to play Pop'n Fever D:

You said it better than I could.

I think what Laura's doing is a step in the right direction, but it needs more exposure. But with more exposure is always the problem of attracting bad apples... It's a complex issue that I really don't have enough experience to comment on (as a host, have exp as an attendee to other events like this). I can think of host side problems, but it's really comes down to risk/reward, and how many risks you are willing to take.