From what I've heard, they do auto-gen (for SN anyway, don't know about other mixes).  See: Curus double.

DDR is far more popular than ITG, and ITG probably is just going to keep fading now that DDR seems to be becoming a full-fledged Bemani series again, and not the pawn to kill Roxor like I originally thought.  I've probably seen about a dozen different references on mainstream media to DDR... none for ITG.

It wasn't.

guy I was arguing with: When you're trying to make a point about something, it's usually best to leave out opinions in favor of factual statements, that's all.

either way I'm going to have to agree with Peaches on this one. I think that adding oni charts to most/all of the songs so the heavy could still be a 7 or less, and stll have a difficulty that is challenging enough for the hardcore players. Why is this a bad idea? It's DDR (which is apparently more popular than ITG) plus what everyone like about ITG. HArd steps. Konami could learn a thing or two from ITG. To think such a small company such as roxor was so threatening that they had to sue...

i dunno... if you ask me, what most people seem to like about itg, would be the r21 and not the songs in the game
and also, the most "hardcore players" still play equally between both itg and ddr, not usually biased towards one of either

and just quoted for a little emphasis

If only they would include Marvs in normal gameplay (or make them optional), I wouldn't care about bumping up the difficulty of charts, because there would still be a challenge.

Why is keeping at least on 8+ chart per song such a bad idea? Last i heard, people enjoyed being challenged when playing DDR (and the lesser difficulties can still be put in lower difficulties)
Again:
Colors (for extreme)
Sync (extreme Version)
Love is orange
Knock out regrets
A
Xepher
V (for extreme)

While some of theese songs still have two charts higher than 7, they are all still good examples of songs that were good on heavy/expert, but still had more challenging challenge steps. Why can't this trend continue, only to a higher degree. And konami also needs to quit being stubborn and start calling songs 11s 12s and 13s. THey use 12 in IIDX right?

I completely agree. I am an accuracy player, and a semi-freestyler. I love 7 steppers, even if they aren't gonna make you sweat.



Again, I concure. I feel that most people who now play ITG are AAA aces from the DDR days or newer players who never got seriously into the AAA aspect of DDR.



I do agree that this does make sense, and a song like Butterfly on Extreme was a great example of this.


My opinion on the ITG/DDR situation is this, for the majority of the players, DDR is considered an accuracy game because the number of super difficult songs is limited, thus you're forced to work on your accuracy while increasing your stamina on a  few select songs. Inversly, ITG offers a ridiculous amount of difficulty while still offering the accuracy, but most players forgoe the accuracy for the challenge of passing the difficult songs. Because of this, I feel it is fair to say that ITG is a survival challenge game. They both serve their own purposes, and we should all just learn to get along and get over it. ITG is almost certainly dead and people need to come to terms with that.

I love to play both of them equally. I am very upset that ITG was shut-out of the race by Konami, but to all those "Konami Haters" out there, just remember, we have laws and rules for a reason. Somtimes they might not work in our favor, but Konami has the right to defend their product and idea. It might not benefit us, but that's just the way it is.

EDIT: How the hell did this Supernova 2 discussion turn into this!?

And those chart will stay, but for those of us who like hard steps, we get oni charts. that would work perfectly. (I'm not trying to be contradictory, since you did say it was a good idea, I just wanted to put a little more emphasis on this)

Peaches brought up a good point, and others seemed to dislike his opinion. w00t for stubborness/opinionatedness!

Traditionally, oni charts were only added for songs used in oni courses. that's why there aren't many and why they don't stick them on every song. they did start throwing them onto random songs on the home versions but in arcades it was still limited to songs appearing in courses.

If DDR is an "accuracy game", how come the Perfect window is so freaking big, or why don't they incorporate Marvelouses into normal gameplay?

how many heavy aaa's do you have, tada?

He might be referring to the fact that the perfect window in SN AC is larger than the perfect window in EX AC.
At least I think it is... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought it was actually the opposite.
But I might be wrong, so ignore this post.

What Davyn implied is totally true though, the perfect window is not big. I only have like 10 AC AAAs, and those are on 6 or 7 footers.

That's probably because they increased the AA requirement from 92% DP to 95% DP. On SN's scoring system, this means you'd have to get 9500000 on a song instead of 9200000.

Two.  I could probably get more, but it's just more frustrating than fun to get AAAs on DDR.  One Great and it's "Now I gotta finish this song... don't care anymore... great attack."  At least if there were Marvelouses, there would not be the same "Great.  Everything's over" feel.  That's one of the reasons why I like IIDX so much.  For the best grade, you can "screw up" a little by getting Greats.  With dozens, sometimes hundreds of "mistakes" you can get the best grade.

But then if you get all pgreats on a song (unlikely but possible) you don't get any kind of extra cool grade.

And anyway, if you dislike attempting DDR AAA's, then don't attempt DDR AAA's.

The Perfect windows in SN are considerably smaller than those in Extreme. However, ITG's Fantastics are still smaller than SN's Perfects (but not by much). And the Marvelouses in the Nonstop and Oni modes are still the most dificult timing window in both ITG and DDR.

I just got my 8th AAA about a week ago, and it was on a 7 stepper on DDR. In fact, the only higher step songs I've AAA'd are My Summer Love, and the only reason its a 9 is because without speed mods it ain't so easy. That being said, it takes a LOT of training and practice to become a AAA master in DDR, which is why most people do exactly what you do Tada, they quit trying to get AAA's and move on to the 10+ stepper in ITG. As you said, you don't have to worry about trying to get every single step perfect then.

I just remember how respected AAA players were in DDR. Now those same guys get shut out by people who can pass bloodrush with a 85%. These guys get more attention and respect than the guys who can quad-star Spaceman on hard. Both take training, patience, and skill, but I personally have more respect for the quad-star over someone who was able to spam the pad for 2 minutes and get lucky.



I can't agree more. Notice that I seem to favor DDR, but that doesn't mean I rip on ITG for making things too hard. If you guys are so obsessed with ITG and hate DDR, then simply don't play DDR! I doubt anyone ever put a gun to your head and told you to put your freakin quarters into the DDR machine. If you prefer ITG, more power to ya, have fun. I for one will enjoy the best of both worlds and be completely satisfied.

Haha I've never heard anyone call them "steppers"

NO

This is not true at all. I really don't know what sites you've been looking at.

Guess what?  I already don't play DDR anymore.  Almost strictly play ITG.  I'm just saying, if there were Marvs in normal gameplay in DDR, I'd probably play them both about equally.  DDR lacks difficulty in both its stepcharts and judgements.  Since they seem to be unwilling to up the chart difficulty, they could probably turn a lot more people back on to DDR with one little tweak that allowed Marvs in normal gameplay.  Avoiding Greats is stressful.  One and it's over.  Avoiding Perfects if Marvs were present would not be so stressful.  It's not the end of the world if you get a Perfect or five.

I'm interested in what your source is for information about SuperNOVA's timing window.  And am I correct in my feeling that SuperNOVA's marvelous window is larger than Extreme's?


I doubt you'll still have this attitude when you have 100 AAAs.  Ultimately getting a perfect score will always be a matter of luck, and when you start getting one or two greats on the same songs over and over actually AAAing them seems very trivial.  Eventually accomplishments are measured by only a difference of a step or two, and any improvements you make become decreasingly obvious.  I had close to 80 AAAs back in October 2004 when I stopped playing DDR, and at that point I came to the realization that I wasn't actually enjoying the game any more, and I was ready to move on to Pump It Up.  I actually believed it was the 4 panel layout that was stale, when it was really just Extreme's song list and difficulty.  ITG was refreshing because finally I had room to improve my scores (yes I'm talking about accuracy).


That example isn't true at all.  A quad star on hard is nearly always more highly regarded than a mere passing score on a 12.  "Spam the pad and get lucky"?  Bloodrush has nearly been SDEed, and I'd hardly call that spamming.

Who's bashing DDR?

I don't know why all these people with 4 or 5 AAAs think that SN's timing windows are smaller than EX's, they're identical.  Larger is a pretty strange claim.  Smaller I can kind of understand because it's a lot harder to visually distinguish between perfects and marvelouses on SN, so it's harder to adjust, whether consciously or subconsciously.  Also, the visual and audio synch are different from extreme, and since everyone is used to extreme, SN is going to feel harder = smaller.  But it's the same.

Tada> Sure, to get a "AAA" you can screw up, but the less you screw up, the better your AAA is.  You're treating an 89% AAA as the same as a 97% AAA the same as a DDR AAA, with the blanket statment "the best grade, " and that just doesn't seem right.  You say that with marvelouses, getting a perfect or two wouldn't be stressful.  You should see what happens when you get to the point of low SDEs on ITG.  It's all the same.  Maybe you think you're too good for the perfect window.  If you ever got good enough, you'd feel the same way about marvelouses.  

Kyrandian> No, 13 ex on bloodrush isn't spamming the pad and getting lucky.  However, that other guy is right in that for some reason, people get more credit for passing V^2 with a 70 (i.e; spamming the pad and getting lucky) gets more respect than low SDEs on 7s.  ITG is all about how fast you can go, not about how accurate.  That's the ITG player mentality as a general rule, whereas in DDR, good scores on easier songs get what imo is deserved credit.  This is actually the primary reason that I do not like ITG.  Look at dukamok for example.  His opinion is that someone who can quad 9s but can't * 12s and 13s doesn't deserve to win a tournament at all, while someone who can * 12s and 13s does, even though they may be able to hardly ** 9s.  Doing half decent on hard songs is more important than doing well on easy songs in the ITG community, period.

Here's a Tofu voting to have "Rediculous"s in SN2. xD

SN AC's timing window is way bigger than EX AC's, and the same one's used in SN CS.  It's SMALLER than prior CS timing windows though.
The old CS timing windows were huge -- huge enough for me to have 12 AAA's and over 200 SDG's (I sux btw).
I have 0 AC AAA's and 3 AC SDG's. (Dynamite Rave [9], Look to the Sky [6], and White Lovers [9]; I might have an SDG on [sync] too.)
Just putting it into perspective.

SN's timing is not easier than extreme's.

Just because the timing is OFF doesn't mean the windows are smaller.

I can SDG 9's on SN.  Best I can do is 25g on Irresistablement on EX.