{Tournament} Dance Dance Party Party! DDRSN & ITG2, 8/22-8/23 @ Narrows & Acme

ancsik

DISTINCTLY LACKING IN PEANUT CONTENT

Achievements:

A Stepchart Artist of the highest caliber

An invaluable guardian of the Acme machine

August 26, 2009, 09:45:10 PM

#76

I agree with Keby, there's definitely no reason for this to get so heated. At this point, the best thing is to look at what's being talked about and learn from it so whoever runs the next one doesn't get such a sharp response after the fact.

Expert-only rule: This seems to be standard elsewhere now and Amber's been going to tournaments out of state, but it definitely has no in-state precedent. I personally disagree with the idea of blocking out hard mode and I probably wouldn't have entered had I known about the rule, but that's my fault for not reading the rules ahead of time (When the tournament was announced in June, I had assumed my leg wouldn't survive an ITG tournament so I never even looked at the thread) and everyone else's for not reading closely enough. I will point out that the expert-only clause is sitting at the end of some other rule's line, no bold or anything, so it's understandable that people missed it. Lesson to be learned: better formatting for the rules and print out a copy to bring day of.

Hard song slipping through: Mishap on the part of the organizers. Yes, it happens. No reason for everyone to dwell on that. Saying it all worked out in the end isn't how large scale events handle rule enforcement mistakes, but 13 people is hardly large scale. Lesson to be learned: the organizers need to either figure out what went wrong and avoid it next time or write a rule set with fewer things that they need to pay attention to.

Entering own tournament: Clearly not rigged, but it has been considered bad form because there's a lot to keep track of without playing yourself. It is unfortunate that both organizers missed the last tournament (two months ago) due to international travel, but even before that there was Sakuracon's tournament (both organizers were there). Claiming it's okay to enter because we haven't been having tournaments is a little on the moot side, but nothing severe in the conflict of interest department came of it, so whatever. The organizers played each other one round and I doubt considerations were made as to how disputes would be handled between them. Lesson to be learned: organizer either needs to not enter, or have assistants so things can't slip by.

Communication breakdown: Kevin did not know the expert-only rule and did tell me that. There's no disputing it. This doesn't mean major breakdowns or anything, but something fell through. Hell, both organizers spent the prior month overseas in different countries and only one or two things fell through the cracks - that's really not so bad, but those mistakes were avoidable. Lesson to be learned: print out rules for day of, all organizers go over rules close to day of (read, ask why things are included if it's unusual, whatever needs to be done).

Leg injury excluded, I did have a lot of fun. We don't have enough of these, and it would be unfortunate for one of the few organizers we have to back out because of some bad feedback, but there were definitely lessons to be learned here as well.

nuggety

seattle, wa

Achievements:

Dance Dance Party Party/2009 Sakura-Con Tournament - Co-Organizer

August 26, 2009, 11:21:25 PM

#77

Quote from: ancsik on August 26, 2009, 09:45:10 PM

Expert-only rule: This seems to be standard elsewhere now and Amber's been going to tournaments out of state, but it definitely has no in-state precedent.

hence difficulty caps

Quote

I will point out that the expert-only clause is sitting at the end of some other rule's line, no bold or anything, so it's understandable that people missed it. Lesson to be learned: better formatting for the rules and print out a copy to bring day of.

ITG2 Expert Tournament

Quote

Hard song slipping through:

lesson to be learned: it happens

Quote

Entering own tournament: Clearly not rigged, but it has been considered bad form because there's a lot to keep track of without playing yourself.

two tournament organizers

Quote

Claiming it's okay to enter because we haven't been having tournaments is a little on the moot side, but nothing severe in the conflict of interest department came of it, so whatever.

i just don't see why it is a problem that we entered other than people saying it is "bad form" and having no good point to back it up

Quote

The organizers played each other one round and I doubt considerations were made as to how disputes would be handled between them.

i don't understand what this even means

Quote

Lesson to be learned: organizer either needs to not enter, or have assistants so things can't slip by.

we had two of us running it, plus at least kevin boddy helping on the side

Quote

Communication breakdown: ... Hell, both organizers spent the prior month overseas in different countries and only one or two things fell through the cracks - that's really not so bad

then why is this being analyzed so thoroughly

honestly, it doesn't have to be heated. i just didn't expect nearly THIS much negativity and i feel like these complaints are being made without much justification. so it wasn't perfect, but what tournament is? it was painless and good and i feel that i am entirely reasonable in defending these events

anyway i am kind of done talking about it i think, thanks for the feedback and i'm glad you guys enjoyed it

« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 11:24:46 PM by nuggety »

Keby

August 26, 2009, 11:30:29 PM

#78

Amber, we understand what you are saying. He's not bashing you, he's making suggestions.

nuggety

seattle, wa

Achievements:

August 26, 2009, 11:35:41 PM

#79

fair enough

ancsik

DISTINCTLY LACKING IN PEANUT CONTENT

Achievements:

August 26, 2009, 11:39:41 PM

#80

My comments weren't meant to have any degree of negativity. Mistakes were made, then blown out of proportion, and I was trying to bring them back into proper focus. The things I said were meant to be constructive rather than derogatory.

You are right to say a few mistakes will happen, but if you take the advice, they won't happen again. Either way, new mistakes will crop up, so not learning from mistakes will lead to eventual problems.

As for calling it an Expert tourney, we've had more "expert tourneys" and "expert divisions" that lacked difficulty restrictions (or were at least Hard+Ex) than those that did. Precedent is fun like that.

As for the Amber v. KevinDDR round, what would have happened if one of you called pad error? I'd hope the player calling foul isn't allowed to be the final judge of that error and the other player's in a weird spot since saying the error was valid advantages them. This is that "conflict of interest" thing I was talking about. I doubt any organizer has a plan in place for this situation, but these are the kinds of things that need to be remembered for future discussions.

As for the communication breakdown comment... yes, nothing came of it that had any real effect, and it wasn't bad considering all factors, but the point still stands that having no misinformation or misinterpretation among tournament staff would have been possible. Just because nothing went wrong doesn't mean that things can't be done better.

airfool

August 27, 2009, 07:42:01 AM

#81

Is this tourney at Narrows on the 23 or is it on the 29?

Iori241

BANNED

August 27, 2009, 10:10:10 AM

#82

Quote from: airfool on August 27, 2009, 07:42:01 AM

Is this tourney at Narrows on the 23 or is it on the 29?

lol

And wow, people are so salty. Level up or shut up. You have to earn first place to win it. With bigger tournaments it makes sense not to have organizers enter, but in a smaller tourney like this it needs all the players it can get. And of course pad arguments can be solved by a third party who ISN'T one of the two organizers playing (majority rules, random person, most exp'd person etc.) People are just feeling salty because the two organizers would win this for sure. Why not just get better instead of whining about 2 players dominating?

tl;dr ver: STOP BEING SO FREE WASHINGTON HAHAA

Laura

FILTHY CASUAL

36 Bellevue, WA

Achievements:

Be In My Paradise / Reflex Air Hockey Organizer

August 27, 2009, 11:42:43 AM

#83

My .02 cents: This is not the kind of tournament I would enter, because I don't like 13 foot songs and have no desire to practice them. That doesn't make it bad, it makes it not the kind of tournament I wold enter. I share some of ancsik's sentiments about rule choice in regards to what I think would be the kind of tournament I'd like to enter, but we're married, so it's totally rigged. Wink

I loved that the tournament happened, the raffles were awesome, and hanging out was great.

In the future, if everyone does really have a problem with the organizers entering their own tournament (the only problem I see with it is if it gets too big to keep track of anything... it's not from an "it's rigged" perspective but a "is this feasible given how much work there is to do" perspective), but the consensus is that everyone wants more ITG Expert tournaments (because I'm probably the ONLY person who doesn't like 13 foot songs), I'd be happy to keep an eye on the machine and work as an assistant to whoever's running the tournament, since I'd be hanging out and not playing anyway.

Iori241

BANNED

August 27, 2009, 03:48:16 PM

#84

Quote from: Laura on August 27, 2009, 11:42:43 AM

My .02 cents: This is not the kind of tournament I would enter, because I don't like 13 foot songs and have no desire to practice them. That doesn't make it bad, it makes it not the kind of tournament I wold enter. I share some of ancsik's sentiments about rule choice in regards to what I think would be the kind of tournament I'd like to enter, but we're married, so it's totally rigged. Wink

I loved that the tournament happened, the raffles were awesome, and hanging out was great.

In the future, if everyone does really have a problem with the organizers entering their own tournament (the only problem I see with it is if it gets too big to keep track of anything... it's not from an "it's rigged" perspective but a "is this feasible given how much work there is to do" perspective), but the consensus is that everyone wants more ITG Expert tournaments (because I'm probably the ONLY person who doesn't like 13 foot songs), I'd be happy to keep an eye on the machine and work as an assistant to whoever's running the tournament, since I'd be hanging out and not playing anyway.

Why don't you like 13s :<

Suko

The Almighty Tallest

42 Mukilteo, WA

Achievements:

August 27, 2009, 03:58:18 PM

#85

Quote from: Laura on August 27, 2009, 11:42:43 AM

I'm probably the ONLY person who doesn't like 13 foot songs

I'm in that boat too. I'd prefer a creative 9 over a 13 any day. But, that's why I went to the DDR Tournament. With both an ITG and DDR tournament, I feel like they covered their bases rather well. I'm really surprised that more people didn't show up for the SN tournament, because we had a decent showing for the Be in my Paradise one.

Happy Redneck

35 Olympia, WA

August 27, 2009, 04:15:23 PM

#86

Quote from: Iori241 on August 27, 2009, 03:48:16 PM

Why don't you like 13s :<

y dnt u

Iori241

BANNED

August 27, 2009, 04:20:19 PM

#87

Quote from: Suko on August 27, 2009, 03:58:18 PM

I'm in that boat too. I'd prefer a creative 9 over a 13 any day. But, that's why I went to the DDR Tournament. With both an ITG and DDR tournament, I feel like they covered their bases rather well. I'm really surprised that more people didn't show up for the SN tournament, because we had a decent showing for the Be in my Paradise one.

You have more freedom to be creative with a 13 than with the difficulty constraints of a 9. 4 Panel is pretty limited to begin with, so unless you're playing pump or DDR doubles creativity should really not be important. Something can also be unoriginal but very good (pandy, bloodrush). With 4 panels it's more important to be solid than have creative steps (see: DDRX)

« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 04:25:19 PM by Iori241 »

Happy Redneck

35 Olympia, WA

August 27, 2009, 04:24:59 PM

#88

dont make me dream cancel your ass

Suko

The Almighty Tallest

42 Mukilteo, WA

Achievements:

August 28, 2009, 09:13:14 AM

#89

Tricky Disco, POST, and Lucky are all examples of highly original charts and they max at 10s. (POST is not an 11 if you know how to read it...hell, it's barely a 10). I have yet to see a creative stepchart above 11. In fact, I haven't seen a stepchart above 11 that offers anything except for 1/16 murder streams.

But arguing this is pointless. You luv 13+ songs, and I do not. We have different play styles and that's cool. I play primarily no-bar because I enjoy moving to the songs and being able to do a random spins or fun crossover switchfooting. I don't care what anyone says, you're not really going to see someone doing these things on a true 13.

« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 09:17:27 AM by Suko »

Laura

FILTHY CASUAL

36 Bellevue, WA

Achievements:

August 28, 2009, 12:17:19 PM

#90

I'm not gonna lie - it's not even the lack of creativity that bothers me with super hard zomg expert charts. It's more the fact that, at levels like 13-14 feet, dance games are hard on your body. I'm the kind of person who can walk for 4 hours straight, go 10-15 miles, and be fine with that, so I wouldn't consider myself "out of shape" exactly. But the short bursts of EXTREME stamina runs are physically painful for me and typically result in various types of injuries or not breathing. I'm sure I could teach myself to play them, and I'm sure they'd be fun if I did, but the back and chest and knee pain just isn't worth the gain of a (very narrow) skillset to me.

Also, the best 10 is Spinnin' Around. Grin

Iori241

BANNED

August 28, 2009, 02:07:11 PM

#91

Quote from: Suko on August 28, 2009, 09:13:14 AM

Tricky Disco, POST, and Lucky are all examples of highly original charts and they max at 10s. (POST is not an 11 if you know how to read it...hell, it's barely a 10). I have yet to see a creative stepchart above 11. In fact, I haven't seen a stepchart above 11 that offers anything except for 1/16 murder streams.

But arguing this is pointless. You luv 13+ songs, and I do not. We have different play styles and that's cool. I play primarily no-bar because I enjoy moving to the songs and being able to do a random spins or fun crossover switchfooting. I don't care what anyone says, you're not really going to see someone doing these things on a true 13.

It really sounds like you don't analyze steps enough/ even bother to read into some of the better difficult charts but maybe that's just me. Maybe you just don't care enough to. Fair enough, but that doesn't validate your point in my eyes. All of those elements you named are in very difficult charts today, just faster or more difficult. Some of Flash's charts come to mind. Mind that I can't pass a lot of more difficult stuff but I can still appreciate the thought that goes into the charts. And I don't just "luv" 11+ or whatever over 10, I can appreciate any steps written well. The most serious players have moved onto these difficulties, so there are more stepfile makers catering to them. Due to this there is more innovation happening in this area than anywhere else in the stepping community at the moment.

discovolante

all those slow songs, I swear

35 Portland, OR

Achievements:

August 29, 2009, 04:31:51 AM

#92

Quote from: Suko on August 28, 2009, 09:13:14 AM

I have yet to see a creative stepchart above 11. In fact, I haven't seen a stepchart above 11 that offers anything except for 1/16 murder streams.

You are not paying attention or have never seen anything above an 11.

Quote from: Suko on August 28, 2009, 09:13:14 AM

I enjoy moving to the songs and being able to do a random spins or fun crossover switchfooting. I don't care what anyone says, you're not really going to see someone doing these things on a true 13.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPVfFwOelJw

Check it out, crossover switchfooting used to make the chart more difficult.

thechibiknight

DDRaholic

42 Tacoma, WA

August 29, 2009, 12:07:36 PM

#93

Really? People had gripes with the tournaments?
I thought they both went well--thank you Amber and Kevin. You both did well.
I'll look forward to doing another tournament with you all when I get back from Iraq next year.

Suko

The Almighty Tallest

42 Mukilteo, WA

Achievements:

August 31, 2009, 12:47:58 PM

#94

Quote from: discovolante on August 29, 2009, 04:31:51 AM

You are not paying attention or have never seen anything above an 11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPVfFwOelJw

Check it out, crossover switchfooting used to make the chart more difficult.

You're right, I don't play much over 11, because I don't feel that you can play these well without using the bar. Sure, you can pass them no-bar, but not with any kind of grace. You point to the You-Tube video above to prove me wrong, but I don't see what you're getting at. Yes, the chart has intricate crossovers, but the steps are too fast and too dense to be played effectively without the use of the bar. This guy doesn't even move his body more than 10Â° one way or the other. Even no-bar on this song doesn't look much different:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HylZ4PC42GM

Look, I don't care what you guys do. Keep playing your 11+ custom charts and enjoy them. It just gets mighty boring to for me to watch people play 11+ songs where they barely turn more than 10Â° from center throughout the entire song. I'll do my small part to keep impromptu freestyle and the old-school play style alive and you can keep playing your technical charts.

I'm just glad that there's still some people out there making GOOD custom charts for those who haven't embraced the 11+ songs.

Keby

August 31, 2009, 01:12:07 PM

#95

That's why people need to embrace ALL charts. Hell I was just at acme yesterday and played 4 full sets of 9 footers. Why?
Because like you say Suko, they're FUN and CREATIVE. And they provide an excellent warm up for people like me who do play 11+ songs.
Then usually by the end of my day I'm playing just 11's and 12's. Why? because to me they're FUN and CREATIVE. Sure they take an ass load of stamina to do, but hell, I like harder songs because of the challenge they provide in the step charts. Yes I can agree that some of the harder songs can become generic with their constant 16th stream abuse, but hey there are 9's out there that can be pretty generic too.

I'm not sure what my point is here.

Maybe I'm just trying to say you should all enjoy what you play, and RESPECT others and their play style dammit!

Iori241

BANNED

August 31, 2009, 01:15:05 PM

#96

Quote from: Suko on August 31, 2009, 12:47:58 PM

You're right, I don't play much over 11, because I don't feel that you can play these well without using the bar. Sure, you can pass them no-bar, but not with any kind of grace. You point to the You-Tube video above to prove me wrong, but I don't see what you're getting at. Yes, the chart has intricate crossovers, but the steps are too fast and too dense to be played effectively without the use of the bar. This guy doesn't even move his body more than 10Â° one way or the other. Even no-bar on this song doesn't look much different: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HylZ4PC42GM

Look, I don't care what you guys do. Keep playing your 11+ custom charts and enjoy them. It just gets mighty boring to for me to watch people play 11+ songs where they barely turn more than 10Â° from center throughout the entire song. I'll do my small part to keep impromptu freestyle and the old-school play style alive and you can keep playing your technical charts.

I'm just glad that there's still some people out there making GOOD custom charts for those who haven't embraced the 11+ songs.

Sounds like you're just a DDR fanboy. So many 10+'s make you do spins on freezes, but again, you're just being ignorant. Ignorance is not a good argument.

It gets mighty boring to play charts in the same difficulty range for me, so keep playing your 9- charts and enjoy them. Branching out and playing everything is a good idea: exclusively any play style is just scrubby and limits the overall experience / what you can take away from the game. You're just salty because you didn't get better when everyone else did, so you use this excuse to prevent yourself from improving. The arguments you've made so far are emotionally charged, supercilious, and lack solid reasoning. Come back with some real points and I'd be really interested in continuing this debate.

Quote from: Keby on August 31, 2009, 01:12:07 PM

That's why people need to embrace ALL charts. Hell I was just at acme yesterday and played 4 full sets of 9 footers. Why?
Because like you say Suko, they're FUN and CREATIVE. And they provide an excellent warm up for people like me who do play 11+ songs.
Then usually by the end of my day I'm playing just 11's and 12's. Why? because to me they're FUN and CREATIVE. Sure they take an ass load of stamina to do, but hell, I like harder songs because of the challenge they provide in the step charts. Yes I can agree that some of the harder songs can become generic with their constant 16th stream abuse, but hey there are 9's out there that can be pretty generic too.

I'm not sure what my point is here.

Maybe I'm just trying to say you should all enjoy what you play, and RESPECT others and their play style dammit!

Read my posts more carefully. I only suggested people open their minds to all difficulties, not just play hard songs exclusively. I don't need to be open minded about someone who is starting close minded arguments with no rational basis.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 01:40:28 PM by Iori241 »

Keby

August 31, 2009, 01:52:27 PM

#97

I wouldn't call him a DDR fanboy seeing as he owns an ITG2 Dedicated cabinet.

Iori241

BANNED

August 31, 2009, 02:00:13 PM

#98

Quote from: Keby on August 31, 2009, 01:52:27 PM

I wouldn't call him a DDR fanboy seeing as he owns an ITG2 Dedicated cabinet.

Of course, if you are to own any dancing game it'd have to be ITG2. Any other choice is simply inferior due to the lack of variety / flexibility. Why would you waste money on a less flexible game that costs more?
You're not even arguing the main point anymore, you're going off on to a side tangent and STILL not even making a solid argument.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 02:03:52 PM by Iori241 »

Keby

August 31, 2009, 02:30:40 PM

#99

Chill out man. I was just defending him.

Suko

The Almighty Tallest

42 Mukilteo, WA

Achievements:

August 31, 2009, 03:18:09 PM

#100

Quote from: Keby on August 31, 2009, 02:30:40 PM

Chill out man. I was just defending him.

Seriously, Iori is just being a troll now.

This event is over and so is this discussion. Jon, would you please lock this thing up?

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News!

{Tournament} Dance Dance Party Party! DDRSN & ITG2, 8/22-8/23 @ Narrows & Acme

{Tournament} Dance Dance Party Party! DDRSN & ITG2, 8/22-8/23 @ Narrows & Acme

SITE LINKS DANCE DANCE REVOLUTION PNW FORUM PHOTO GALLERY EDIT PROFILE SITE HELP

ARCADE AREAS WESTERN WA EASTERN WA OREGON CANADA (BC)

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SITE LINKS

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EDIT PROFILE

SITE HELP

ARCADE AREAS

WESTERN WA

EASTERN WA

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CANADA (BC)

MUSIC GAMES

HOME & ARCADE GAMES CHAT

DDR & GAMING ACCOMPLISHMENTS

DDR TOURNAMENTS

BEMANI & DDR TRIVIA