so far, that is a legit and clean looking poster, nice work can't wait to see it up at acme.

     Not to be a downer but I'm not paying $25 if any out-of-area players are looking to compete btw. And I've heard a lot of hype over these ridiculous world-class ITG players showing up out of nowhere and crashing this tournament. I won't even enter at all if any of these absurd players are allowed to actually steal all the money from this thing and fuck up the matchups like the last tournament at Acme. Even if it's (miraculously) kept purely local like it was intended to be, the entry fee should be dropped at least $10 from that. I don't know why it's so high when absolutely everyone thought it was a bad idea.

Jesus man. It's like you want this tournament custom made so that you and keby are the only two real competitors. WTF?

Btw Kevin, I did some calculations. If we assume this round robin tournament will have 10 participants and that each match takes approximately 10 minutes, then the estimated time required (assuming n/2(n-1), where n=number of players) comes out to something like 45 matches, which is about 7.5 hours. And that's assuming each round is played back-to-back, without breaks, pauses or wasted time in-between song selections. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

@Suko: It's my understanding that the Round Robin tourney is capped at 6 players, the top 6 to qualify.  Therefore, there will only be fifteen matches, or about two and a half hours of tournament, which is fairly reasonable.

I think everyone's voices need to be heard, but this thread was getting too off-topic, so I moved discussion about out-of-state players into a new thread.  I don't want to go crazy with power and shut anyone up, but I do want to keep the tournament thread focused on the rules of this tournament.  So basically, keep posting here if you have something for KevinDDR to take into account (discussion about entry fees and how the format works is totally fine) and post there if you want to talk about the fairness of out of state players coming.

Hey guys, I have a random but neat idea about the prize money.
So, I noticed that the Sleep Country Pajama Bowl is happening at acme on the same day at 11:00am. The event is to raise money for foster kids.
I think it would be really awesome if we kept the entry fee for the tournament, but donated the money to the charity instead of having a cash prize for the winners.
This way everybody wins! 

Or an even better idea, everyone must enter wearing pajamas!

THIS!

// like

I think that this is a great idea. I'm all for donating and helping out good causes. Maybe instead of all the winnings, how about half? If I were to win, I wouldn't mind donating 50% to charity.

Btw, when does the Pajama thing end? 'Cause if it's later earlier than our tournament ends, that could be a problem.

P.S. I don't mean to sound stingy, but I was unemployed until just last month, so money is still a bit tight for me. That's why I suggested 50% instead of all. =D

I actually like the idea of donating the money to charity. I'll talk to Bill about it, and we'll see what happens!

O rly?  I don't see them.

Seriously though, looking forward to it!

Disconnected Disco
Lipstick Kiss
On A Day Like Today
You Wanna Me (I know that this is a 10 )

Clockwork Genesis
Destiny
Epileptic Crisis (Hard)
Feels Just Like That Night

Qualifiers will be chosen on the day by random.org.

You Wanna Me is in now way comparable to those 9's.  Not only does it have significantly trickier 12th/24th note rhythms than the other 3 (two of which are very straightforward), but it has, by far, the hardest runs of those charts (Lipstick Kiss, the one other chart with tricky timing has no runs, actually).  I am likely to seed very high if You Wanna Me is chosen because I've already been playing it a lot and am getting very consistent at it, plus I've seen a few other people play it do disproportionately bad on (a player who can 96-98 most 10's getting 90 on it, for example), so by all means leave it in and let me seed right on in to the Expert Bracket, I'm just trying to be fair to the other players.

I generally disagree with the idea that the 11's selected are "representative" of 11's in general, but that's a subjective analysis.  They're probably not changing, but I do wonder how this set was selected.  My above point about You Wanna Me is closely related to this question.

I will say that Epileptic Crisis is, in my opinion, a series of uninspired rolls overlayed on the dumbest BPM gimmicks i"ve even seen in a chart meant to be taken seriously and has absolutely no place in a tournament.  If EC is chosen and Cmods are not allowed - which, given the Cmod disqualification rules, would be the expected case - I will get in my car and leave without hesistation; I have stated time and again that my intent is to enjoy this tournament, and qualifying on EC is simply antithetical to my enjoyment of the event.

My thoughts aren't quite as harsh in that nothing would make me flat-out not enter a tournament, but some of these qualifier choices kind of open up a can of worms, in that to enter the tournament I'm going to have to sandbag, which is all kinds of wrong.

Since I am in the set of "standard" players who wanted 11s to be the hard thing that comes out at the end of the tourney instead of 12s, it's no surprise that I may or may not be able to pass any of those songs, and that would be ok if it were simply "play until I fail," but that's not exactly the case.  Whenever I play an 11 that's oriented around stamina (Feels Just Like That Night is a good example) I have to make a choice at several points during the song: Do I stop while I still feel okay but know it's going downhill so that I don't hurt myself at all?  Do I wait until I'm struggling to breathe a little?  Until I'm having a full-blown asthma attack?  Until the song is over? 

If I am physically capable of passing the 11 foot qualifier but choose not to because it will make me stop breathing for half an hour while I pump inhaler into myself and wheeze, is that sandbagging?  After all, I could have passed the song if I didn't stop, and it is a strategic move to conserve energy so I can continue to play in the tournament. And no matter what I do, there's some way it's not fair, often to someone else:

-If I say "There's just no way" and don't even try on the 11 qualifier, I'll seed low and then fight a higher seed with more stamina in the early round, where they can't play to their strengths, and I'll almost surely win due to which songs are even available for play.

-If I stop halfway through to avoid feeling sick in the first place, my (presumably) strong score on the 9 + good timing on the first half of the 11 will seed me fairly high, but I conserved a lot of energy that others didn't.

-If I have an asthma attack I will need to skip entering the actual tournament, which isn't unfair to anyone else but kind of sucks for me.

I think that this is the problem a lot of us were legitimately concerned about before our arguments got petty and devolved into "timing players just want what they want" or "stamina players just want what they want."  "Timing players" were told things like "Well, it doesn't matter if you can't pass the harder stuff in the tournament because you can just win on your most likely 9 foot random," but when even the standard tournament has an 11 foot qualifier that's actually fairly hard (or in the case of Feels Just Like That Night, not hard at all but a total stamina drain,) those arguments kind of go out the window. 

I'm not saying the qualifier choice is bad - honestly, if I were running an Expert tournament, Lipstick Kiss + Feels Just Like That Night would be a set of qualifiers that *I* would choose.  A lot of the potential qualifiers are awesome and very fair, assuming players of a particular skill and stamina level.  But for players who already feel a little frustrated with the fact that their voices might not have been heard, making them play the kinds of songs they thought should be reserved for the epic final rounds of this tournament as the qualifier is sort of like pouring salt into open wounds.

I'm really trying not to whine, Kevin.  You've put up with a lot of crap to give us this tournament, and I really appreciate it.   To be honest, I will probably try to qualify for this tournament even if I do have to play an 11, and just deal with the fact that maybe I'm not good enough to even pretend I should be entering ITG tournaments.  That's been what I've done in the past, and with only one bracket, that's what's fair.  I guess I just feel like... the two-tournament format came about because our community has a huge gap in skill level between the upper level players and everyone else, and we wanted to be more inclusive - and what ended up happening is that the standard bracket is basically the same tournament rules we always have (we never really allow 12s until later rounds anyway, and then 13s in the finals,) only with a few Hard charts and a significantly harder qualifier. 

If the more inclusive tournament has just as much, if not more red tape for timing players and the same qualifiers as the Expert tournament, it really seems more and more like having two divisions is just creating extra administrative work.  With the 11-foot qualifier there to separate out the best players from the players who can time almost as well but fail anything draining, why not just do one big tournament and go round robin when you get to the semi-finals or something?  Two divisions just don't make sense when the lower division is as hard as past upper division tournaments. 

I agree that epileptic crisis is not a good pick for a qualifier.
I don't think a 10 like You Wanna Me is appropriate for a lower qualifier.
I also feel like it's becoming one big tournament, instead of being the two separate divisions that it's supposed to be, which is disappointing.
I understand that the harder songs are meant to see how well you can time stamina intensive songs, but for the most part, people in this community already know which division they belong in, so why make those of us who are obviously "standard" feel worse about it?
I wish we could just trust players to know if they belong in the standard division and have people "challenge" to be in the expert division by doing the higher qualifier.
That way those that can't pass the 11, or would be unnecessarily tired out to do it, wouldn't have to.
Also, there are some really good 10's to choose from instead of having 11's.

GOING TO TO ACME TONIGHT TO PUT UP THE POSTER.

HOW MANY SHOULD I PRINT?

WHERE SHOULD THEY BE PUT OTHER THAN ON THE MACHINE?

caps to get your attention

PUT ONE ON ITG3 AND ONE ON SUPERNOVA 2 SINCE THERE'S A DDR TOURNEY ALSO

ASK ACME STAFF IF YOU CAN PUT ONE UP ON THE BACK DOORS (THE ONES BY THE ARCADE) WITHOUT THEM TEARING IT DOWN

...Caps because it's funny.

Thanks Laura! I'll see anyone else there as well. Going down around 3. Might play for a bit also

this could also throw me for a loop cause in the past there were a few 11's that i could pass but then also a few 11's that i couldn't do, so i feel like i'm stuck right in the middle, but now a days i don't know where i would stand cause i haven't gotten to play much anymore except DDR like once every two weeks and i haven't played ITG since i was in vegas back in June. but i'll just go and whatever happens happens, but i don't think i'll make it into expert unless clockwork genesis is picked, then i might slip into expert....

Woah! List of quallies are up! Interesting selection I've only played one of those songs but we have 3 weeks to do em

Keby are the posters up? Glad to see this rolling more ! I been telling all players I see about it. (I usually come before the rush on Friday and 1-2 other weekdays)

Posters are up Neem!
On both sides of the ITG3 Machine and one on SuperNova 2.

Unfortunately the one on the DDR machine was taken down WHILE I was there. Hahaha
I didn't even see if it was ACME staff or a random kid but the ITG3 ones should still be there.....I hope.

Edit> I remitted my comment. Please, call me Sumner. It's on bitches.

Was just at Acme, one of the managers asked a couple questions about the tournament to confirm everything was going through Bill, etc., since he hadn't heard anything from Acme's higher ups, but had noticed the posters.  He was concerned that we were having an unsanctioned (by Bill/Acme) tournament -  the prompt removal of the poster on the DDR machine probably had something to do with that, and the remaining poster probably won't disappear so quickly now that we've straightened things out with a floor manager.

Ah sumner. Makes me remember about way back with team posers from the team tourney years ago with me u and pixie. Good times lol. It is indeed on!