Good post.
If anything out of area players should hype this tournament more and have people striving for the very best. Take this as a challenge, "skill" is relative and not a static idea, sounds like some people have fragile egos and are unwillling to change with times. I can safely say I am a bad player by today's standards (hell, anyone in Oregon and Washington with the exception of maybe MTJ and a couple of other players are terrible players by today's standards). If that bothered me enough I would choose to play seriously in order to level up and get better. Just saying to Gerrak and whoever else.

This isn't going to be pretty, because I was very serious.

None of the top players here really want these out of state guys to show up out of nowhere and steal this tournament. I've talked to all of you so don't pretend now that it's cool with you. Kevbo came in and ransacked the last tournament for the entire pot and it was fucked up and everyone agreed. Canada came in and the semi finals were 3 Canadians and 1 American, with 2 Canadians in the finals. I've heard about at least 3 world-class players that want to crash this tournament, plus Canada if they decide to, and it's fucking retarded. We designed this tournament with a parallel division style to cater to the people in THIS community. The "top 6" thing was because there are approximately 6 people who would compete who are a significant margin ahead of the rest of the players. If there are 3 people who come in and crash it, then the bottom 3 seeds from the former expert division are now in the standard bracket, which fucks up the standard bracket too.

For fuck sake, will we EVER have a "Local" ITG tournament that isnt crashed and won by people who aren't local? I mean shit the last and only two we've had in the last 3+ years were won by people who don't EVER play here, and just showed up and stole the whole thing and fucked up our being able to play against each other.

Me and Keby and Rudo and Tuan and, if they want to be in the expert division, KDDR, Tom, and James and probably others too. ALL of whom are very close in skill and the tournament could go to any of them. SEVEN people not TWO so shut the fuck up and get your facts straight, I'm not trying to bias this toward me, I want a tournament that ANY of us LOCAL PLAYERS WHO FUCKING PLAY HERE have so much as a chance of winning.
 
Above all, this pissed me off. Keby you're full of shit, I've heard you bitch about ridiculous people constantly crashing our tournaments too. You bitch and bitch and bitch about it to the local players and then when it comes down to it you're spineless on the issue and would sell me out to try to suck some of these "good players" dicks. And I suggest you watch your fucking mouth calling me a "butt-hurt kid"; if you said this in person you'd be liable to get your ass kicked. And that goes for the handful of you who quoted this bullshit as a "good post". Get your fucking heads out of your asses and quit being so two-faced. None of you really agree that this is desirable to have them crash this shit.

Out of state world-class players WILL fuck up this tournament if allowed to enter. EVERYONE hates when these guys crash our shit, so don't god damn lie and say it doesn't piss you off too. I was there for the other tournaments and people were fucking PISSED. If you didn't learn how to play here, or live here and play dance games for a while, or have some reasonable affiliation with the dance games community in the PNW, you shouldn't be allowed in this tournament that's been specifically tailored in its parallel bracket style and ruleset to OUR community. Or maybe I should just sandbag (or maybe fairly seed, if enough of these guys enter) into the standard division and steal that whole thing just like any of these guys stealing the expert division. I'm sure everyone in the standard division loves losing on all the 12s I can 99.

All I want is one god damn tournament here that I can play against the people from this area. I've been waiting for YEARS. FUCK these world class players looking to crash this shit and steal all the money, fun, and fairness out of this tournament. Let us have our own god damn local tournament like it was designed. A FAIR tournament for LOCAL players.

Even if this tournament suddenly went to no-bar Hard Charts only, I still wouldn't enter. The attitude coming from you in this thread is atrocious. If you wanna have a throw down with the top 6 SO BADLY, just call'em up and organize a get together at Acme some night for a duel. I don't know why this tournament has to be custom made to order for you. This ain't fucking Burger King, ya'know?

Please don't threaten me over the internet. You lose all credibility when you do.

Yes, you are right. I've complained about these situations before, but then I realized.
"Maybe I should just work really hard to get super good so when they roll on by down to one of our tourny's I can just beat them instead of crying about it"

So yes I am hypocrite, but I changed my attitude because I'd rather do something to change the outcome of this tournament than get angry when it doesn't go my way.
That way at least I know I tried.

So when this does happen. Please, be my guest, work real hard and win this tournament so you don't ever have to complain about this again.
Which is what I'm doing.

Edit: Thanks for moving this thread laura.

If these guys crash the tournament I intend to do just that. Hold a tournament by invitation only. Since clearly even when we design a tournament with parallel brackets and specific rulesets to cater to OUR community, it's going to be allowed to be crashed and fucked up by other players and everyone will, once again, leave feeling robbed just like the last two. SOUNDS LIKE FUN

This shit wasn't "custom made for me" it was custom made for everyone here. And that endeavor will be ruined if not local players come crash it.


Suko I like you in person man, but when it comes to dance games we just don't get along >.<
I've worked my dick off for years to be competitive in this area, yet every time we've even attempted to have a showdown between the top in this area it gets fucked up. I guess I'm just an asshole for having the mentality that maybe this thing could be fucking fair where we don't already know the winner before the tournament even starts.

Keby:
Ha. You called me a "Butt hurt little kid." This doesn't lose you credibility? And credibility to whom? You? All that I care about is this: If you say this to my face, I'll break yours. Try me, I fucking dare you. Don't try to start shit with me on these forums.

Okay I'm being serious dude. You need to calm down.
Threatening people over the internet doesn't look good coming from anybody. Please stop, because your not helping your imagine in the eyes of everyone right now.

That and yeah. If you wanna have an invitation only tourny. Once again, be my guest.
All I'm saying is, I intent to be good enough to compete with these kids who might show up.

I don't directly insult anyone on these forums. Don't do it to me either and we won't have a problem.

When did we recently have a tournament uncrashed by such high level out of state competition? I'm quite sure many other communities around the country have tournaments uncrashed by these world class players. Is there not enough tournaments for tourney crashers to play and have fun in?

We did debate and as a community make two divisions for this tourney. What could end up happening is if these people do show, (like kevbo has done previously), there's going to be a fair set of expert players in the standard division, almost defeating the purpose for a standard division as Gerrak stated.

I have absolutely no problem with competition and playing with anyone, whether i play alongside a player like Gerrak or Tuan, or new players who are just able to pass a 10, it's the game i want to play at the end of the day.

But this isn't a regular day it is a tournament, and we did aim this to attract the most community/local players we could, didn't we? Would it be encouraging to everyone in such a standard division if some super high end players are in the standard division with them?

Just a few questions above about the issues because it could do alot of players in the standard bracket wrong. If it were players like us in the standard div. coming from another state, it would be a different issue as it wouldn't be changing the dynamic of the tournament. Come what may though, I'll be entering and giving it my all no matter what.

ditto.

I don't remember Kevin ever explicitly mentioning this. I know Gerrak did repeatedly, but I didn't know is was ever decided on that it should be a prime-directive for this event.

You realize this is what Tony, Laura, Sara, me, and a few others have been fighting against all along right? We wanted an easier standard division, so we wouldn't feel like it was a total waste of our time and so that we wouldn't lose, simply because we couldn't handle playing at that intensity. Now it's your turn to put yourself in our shoes. I don't mean to be so harsh, but hopefully you can now understand why some of us got so frustrated and fed up over the level cap business and the stamina-oriented direction this tournament was headed in.

Wait, where'd I miss the post about "out of state" people even crashing the tournament? Who's coming?

PS: @Everybody - Keep it civil!

Civilization is over. It's time for poo flinging!

I don't know where the idea of multiple players comes from - Neko may or may not be in the set of "out of state players" (I don't consider him such as he lives here now, but he did move here right before the tournament) and Flash voiced interest in coming to Neko (who relayed the message in person to Gerrak).  Nothing is firmly stated in a thread anywhere and nothing is really firmly stated in the first place.

Gotta love speculation.

In the tournament thread, XenonScreams said she might be coming, too - that one isn't speculation in that it came straight from her (although might is the key word.) 

Allan, if you think these tournaments are for bringing the community closer together, I don't think you're doing anyone a favor when you directly or indirectly threaten physical violence on the members of it.

Also, I think just as the expert division was intended to "inspire" those of us in the standard division, players like Flash should inspire you to get better.  If everything about this tournament for you is about winning, by all means, don't enter.  But if any part of you thinks it would be cool to see a world class player like Flash play in a tournament or can't wait to have a great time with friends at a tournament, I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not attending.


Side note: Did anyone else notice that Tony made a post that was only a paragraph long?!

I see what you did there!

Heh. I'd like to see Keby and Flash face off on Epileptic Crisis. Just sayin :]

And the posts ARE starting to become less than 3 paragraphs in length on average! What? Come on, people.. =/

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but if all the ITG tournaments I've been to are any indication, there are sure to be players no one has ever seen taking first (and all your $$ ) unless we specify it should be for PNW players only.

Regarding Neko, I won't pay $25 to enter if he's in, but I'll enter if it's cheaper. No offense to Neko but he did also kind of fall out of the sky and is miles ahead of us so it would be pretty weak to compete, however I won't argue that he's technically now a PNW player.
I think it would be far far more appropriate for these guys to show up and encourage the healthy competition that we (almost) have going but not seek to satisfy their egos by smashing players who aren't quite there yet. Shit, have the winner challenge these guys and get their ass kicked, I'm fine with that, just leave the tournament to the local players...

Also
The problem was that local players play 12s, not random players no ones ever seen showing up and raping you on stuff you cant and can pass, and these players are weak on timing. As we explained about 100 times, no one in the local area would probably pick a 12 against you (unless of course expert division people get bumped down to standard) and even if they did, your superior timing would most likely win you the random song anyway so it's a moot point. But yes it's very messed up as you conveyed here

Also randomly
Btw I got the #2 record under Kevbo on Expert and #1 on Hard. Just sayin :]

I think I'm gonna leave the forums alone for the weekend... God help me in that endeavor...

Still sits as a moot point since I did win the match via timing (and almost won without a tiebreaker despite failing the 12 part way), but exactly this happened to me.  There's nothing theoretical about local players not doing it - it has happened.  I doubt most of the local players would do it, given all the discussion and general goodwill that eventually came of it, but it's not fair to take it as an absolute.

I never said i couldn't handle playing at that intensity, i'll play a few 12s in a set if i want to...If out of state players want to face me on a 12 first round, I'll do it happily! This has not much to do with level capping and stamina  Losing in a tournament to me is no waste of time, whether it has divisions or not. You see, if i did put myself in your shoes, I wouldn't be happy to face them playing anything harder than a 10/11 on basis that i'd lose. The problem with that is: I'm going to face whoever I face, no matter what, win lose or draw. 

Neko moved here recently and is here to live and to be a part of our community, and i hope no one confused this "out of state" thing with someone like him. I hope he enters and will happy to see him (and everyone else there)! It's others around the country that come, kill the tourney, n go back home who i'm referring to (flash, kevbo, etc). But hey, if they come anyway (to compete or not), I'll still be in the tourney.

hey who wants to juok kacha

When you start excluding good out-of-state players from tournaments, it tends to result in the overall level of the community decreasing. If there's no motivation to get better, no one will get better. If someone from out of state has put in enough effort to become better at the game than any of us, then it's completely reasonable for them to come to our tournaments and beat us. I'm frankly disappointed that anyone feels that losing to a better player makes a tournament "unfair". That doesn't even make sense; it's unfair to not allow anyone to enter. How would allowing good players to enter make a tournament unfair?


In a fair tournament it's quite possible that you can predict the winner before the tournament starts. Additionally, I've never indicated that the tournament is supposed to be a "showdown between the top in this area". It's meant to be a dancing game tournament. If anyone wants to come to the area to enter the tournament, more power to them. I personally enjoy playing against people who I couldn't just meet on a Friday night at Acme, and I'm sure others do too. I'll probably lower the entry fee by a little, but not too much to the point where there is no reasonable prize in the expert division.

I feel like this is the best post in the entire thread:


Anyway, I've decided that I'm going to go ahead and allow anyone who wants to enter to enter. I hope that the messages I've received aren't representative of the community as a whole, and that other people will still want to enter. Dancing games are quite significantly about personal improvement, not limiting the group of players you play with so you can win. Neko isn't an out of state player, and I've heard nothing firm about anyone else coming anyway so I don't know why there's so much argument about this. If someone really wants to run a "regional only" "invitational" tournament then go ahead. Or don't because Acme will not allow someone to host an event excluding out-of-state residents. Maybe just play matches on a Friday night at Acme. I don't know. In summary:


 

KDDR you're retarded. I just want ONE tournament that isnt ruined by out of state players. Not all the tournaments, we got another one coming up a month after this that IS all-inclusive. You're fucking retarded if a) you think these guys give a flying fuck about the well-being of our community and b) you think that YET ANOTHER tournament where bullshit players entering and stomping all over us wouldn't leave our entire community pissed off at the end of the tournament like the last two have. I have precedent and reasoning here, we NEVER have god damn tournaments for just us, they always get crashed and they always blow ass.
Thats why major league teams compete in minor leagues. Or high school kids in little league, or MMA champions entering a small-town martial arts tournament They don't and aren't allowed because that's inappropriate and self-serving to them, not good for the community. The players in our community right now aren't first tier players like these guys, we haven't had the time to train up because we haven't played competitive ITG for like 8 years and have 100+ quads like these guys, and yeah for a little while there losing to awesome players (from THIS area) was a huge motivator, but CONSTANTLY being unable to have a fair tournament and being shown that no matter how good I get, I'll NEVER be that good doesnt help motivation, it utterly kills it. It's absolutely inappropriate for these guys to be in our tournament. Ive talked to Amber and she said a huge reason she quit was exactly this: nothing she did ever impressed her or motivated her anymore because she'd seen people who could walk all over her no matter how hard she trained or how hard she tried. Some of us might one day be to the caliber of these players, but our community has lost nearly all of its old veterans and we are what's left and we need time to recover and just play with each other to get to that level, not get constantly stomped all over by Kevbo, Canada, Flash, who the fuck ever. Fuck those guys. Except Kevbo he's kinda cool in person but he's got no business in our tournaments still (not that he was going to crash this particular one).

And
I'LL BET MONEY IF YOU TOLD ACME THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE NOTORIOUS FOR RUINING OUR TOURNAMENTS THEY WOULD LET US DISALLOW THEM And I would take the initiative to ask them about it. Grab your nuts and man the fuck up you pussy, quit sucking the dicks of these guys whenever they come and ruin our shit. They don't give a FUCK about us, they just want us to jerk them off for being so good, have them an ego-gasm for beating all our local players, and go back home never to be heard of until we all throw money at them next time. Well FUCK that. MOST people here don't particularly want to get stomped all over by people they've never seen. Certainly no one I've talked to in person. But yet no one is willing to do anything about it, just bend over and take it.

I won't put down $25 to be stolen by guys who I've never seen before. Fuck that. Kevin, you have clearly lost sight of what we originally designed the dynamic of the tournament to be. Don't you remember you adopted the ruleset from OUR LOCAL DISCUSSION? The 6man Expert Bracket was designed with basically specific people from THIS area in mind. If 2-3 more people show up, it bumps our best down into the standard bracket which ruins anyone else's chances there of winning that too and effectively ruins our whole design!

Or maybe I'll just enter the standard bracket. $10 is reasonable, and I probably have a 90% chance of winning it if none of the other expert guys sandbag down there too, we'll see how well any of you in support of these fucking assholes like playing Dream to Nightmare or Bloodrush, because I'll pick the worst charts allowed. It's sure to be as fun for you as it was for me getting raped by KevBo in the last tournament at Acme and as fun as it would be to get crushed by Flash in this one.

In any case, Kevin, the last tournaments you have run have caused me to believe that you are a terrible spineless tournament organizer. I will absolutely discourage anyone I previously told "could do really well! You should come!" from coming on the basis of they no longer have a chance anymore. I've encouraged well over a dozen players in this manner because, frankly, they DID have a shot at doing well. But not anymore. I'll also tell these self-serving egomaniacs to their faces if they show up that they have no business being here, and talk to the guys I play with in the Expert division about walking out on the tournament or dropping down to standard if these guys show up and insist on ruining this shit again. And if these guys do show up, I will myself run an local only tournament since you clearly don't have the resolve to enforce rules to ensure a good fair tournament for the people in the PNW.

Bunch of ignorant forgetful carebears here I swear to God... Just bend over and take it in the ass from these guys like you always have. Well they aren't so accommodating to us; let them take our money, fuck up our tournament AGAIN and leave never to play here again until it serves their wallets and egos and after it's all said and done you'll see I was indeed right this whole time. But you'd never admit it or do anything about it even when the evidence and precedent are right before your god damn eyes.