Dude, you're clearly trying to frame me.  My last name is Smiley.  :lol:

Welp, sounds like a persuasive argument to me.

...

...

Except there's NO SENTRY in this game!

[vote zeppy_gorrila]

...what.   the.   heck?

I'm surprised the game didn't end with Laura and Tony being out, but Zeppy is clearly either off his rocker, or...  I have no idea what he's thinking, but like Arkaaito said, THERE IS NO SENTRY.  This has been one messed up games of werewolf I've ever played; and the first where someone's claiming a role not in the game. :?:

[vote Zeppy_Gorrila]

He probably just didn't check the entity list carefully enough before making his bluff.  But still, geez.  I laughed myself to tears when I read this. :lol:

Maybe he's trying to convince us what a terrible liar he is in time for the next game.

And since I forgot to do it before,

[vote zeppy_gorrila]
[VOTE NIGHTFALL]

Current Tally:

zeppy_gorrila 2 - BlueSS(3), Arkaaito(4)*
saltine_crackers 1 - tada(1)

* indicates nightfalled vote

(aaaand we run into a fatal mistake. There's a reason people always play with an odd number of players :P)

After the mob strings zeppy_gorrila up,.. yadda yadda ok, I guess I'm glad I didn't bother thinking up a final death scene.

[Killed zeppy_gorrila]

Then the wolves kill someone, anyone tonight, and parity is reached, so they
[Killed Everybody Else Too]

Tada, BlueSS, and saltine_crackers win.

Your Cast, in order of hilarity:

Completely owned:
Ryouga (Kyle Ward/Seer). Views: Night 0: Arkaaito. N1: ancsik
Eesa (Board Member/Villager).
Ancsik (Board Member/Villager).
AlphaConqueror (Board Member/Villager).
OneMoreLaurvely (DJ Mysterio/Hunter).
Lhet (Bill Masterman/Priest). Views: *Night 1: ryouga, *Night 2: ancsik, Night 3: AlphaConqueror
zeppy_gorrila (Ineffective Arcade Security/Martyr). Guarded: Night 1: AlphaConqueror, Night 2: zeppy_gorrila, Night 3: tada

The people who managed to not die, but still lose:
Arkaaito (Board Member/Villager).
The Wise Fool (Board Member/Villager).

And the winning team:

saltine_crackers (JOKR/Sorceror). Views: *Night 0: Lhet, *Night 1: Arkaaito, *Night 2: tada, *Night 3: The Wise Fool
BlueSS (Konami Lawyer/Wolf).
tada (Konami Lawyer/Wolf).
et: Night 1: Eesa, Night 2: AlphaConqueror, Night 3:Lhet, And they already sent in Night 4, which was going to be The Wise Fool

* denotes a random choice


No whining about not telling you about Arcade Security/zeppy. In the rules, which you should have read, I listed 12 players, but only 11 player roles. If you missed that, or didn't read them, any problem you have with the rules is your own damned fault. :P

Anyhow, this was fun. And we've ironed out a ton of problems for next time, provided people want to play and don't mind paying attention. :P

Uh, right then.  It was fun, but would anyone *else* care to moderate the next round?  I've never played a game before where ferreting out the inconsistencies/errors in the rules is an integral part of play. :lol:

I figured out Tada was a lawyer right after I died.  He just jumped out way too quickly and accused someone after my death.  I had suspicions about BlueSS because he wasn't trying to PM me this game =P

I don't understand how it's our fault if there were more players than roles; so we're just supposed to know what the last role is?

Please don't take the holier-than-thou attitude =/ geez you act like people are actually supposed to read the rules or something.

Anyhow, my biggest suggestion for the next game is a later close for voting (say midnight).  I just don't feel the 7pm close was evoking any discussion (i certainly wasn't able to say anything as the only time I could really play was right at 7 and by then it was nightfall).  But hey, I agreed to the rules, I guess.  Actually I misread the rules and agreed to them, so anyhow.

EDIT: BTW, thanks for the guard zeppy =D

Then you've never really played a game of werewolf. :P



There are several aspects of the game people incessantly disagree on. This one is mine.



The date and time was open to discussion for just short of a week. I probably should have guessed that no one whining meant no one was paying any attention, especially in this crowd.  :P

The inconsistencies in the rules would be fine if rule #1 was "Pay attention to these rules, people."  I skimmed them but didn't bother analyzing them, which is probably better than some of the players.  People will probably read them a bit closer now.

The number of first time players kind of threw this game off, but some general stuff so we can have more interesting discussions and less random voting:
1. Wolves don't sit back (unless they weren't paying attention to the game starting)
-BlueSS and Ryouga messing around at the beginning wasn't inherently suspicious, but it was pretty likely that one of them was a wolf trying to get some posts going so that the wolves didn't make the first vote.
-Sniping; we were on the way to a no lynch, which is good for the villagers since a villager is more likely to die than a wolf, when suddenly a single person posts a 'random' kill minutes before cutoff.  Two wolves, one seer, and no one else with a reason to do that; there's a 67% chance Tada was a wolf based on that alone, plus he'd already been jumping around without a lot of justification.
-"Hey guys, I'm the seer." Two games in a row has this been used, last time by a wolf about to die.  A wolf Really only an option to someone about to die, since no one should be gullible enough to believe it's not a wolf if the character isn't about to die.  Laura tried it to shift the first timers against the real wolves, Jerrad and I used it last game to turn suspicion away from me when he died.  Revealing a special role is instant death, either by lynching or wolf.  Claiming to be a villager probably means lynching.  You can't give someone concrete evidence of your role - it's cheating - so revealing yourself privately is usually bad too.
-Overthinking/Underthinking.  If Tada is a wolf and I vote for him, I will not die that night; if Tada isn't a wolf, I might.  Wolves think about kills that keep suspicion off of them, they don't do so far as to do something really obvious hoping people will think they couldn't possibly be that dumb - at least not more than once per game in non-emergency situations.  Really obvious 'evidence' is probably false, really complicated stuff is too.
-Wolf packs; good wolves vote together part of the time, not all of the time and not none of the time.  Any odd behavior patterns towards a certain other player (always agree/disagree, always/never address their posts) is suspicious.  Jerrad and I discussed our votes before posting and took wholly different approaches to the discussion (he accused actively, I sat back and put out analysis but followed the group) we even timed our posts to coincide at one point to make it look like we hadn't been talking privately.
-Dying quickly; if you're the first to accuse someone without backing it well or you just seem to follow the mob with saying much, the mob is probably going to turn on you.
For reference, when Tada sniped me, Laura and I immediately knew he was a wolf.  We already suspected BlueSS over anyone else, so we had the two pinned.  Then we both died.

A no-lynch is actually a benefit for the wolves, I found out later. Lynching is how the villagers gain information (apart from the Seer, who you guys brilliantly lynched the first day, and the Priest, who never got a chance to say anything), so if there's no lynch, then the villagers gain nothing, and the wolves eat someone. Advantage wolves.

Also, a wolf having the first vote (which, guess what, happened) is also advantageous for the wolves, since time is a key factor in tiebreaking.

You can, in fact, reveal a role and not die. My second (first) view was of Tony because I wanted to know if I could trust him. I suppose since the wolves know who they are they automatically know who isn't a wolf, too, but I would have PMed him and said "hey, I know you're clean, I'm the seer and need someone to claim seer with real info". If you can pull that off, you can get the benefit of the Seer role instantly when they find a wolf, and then again when they find the other. Getting everyone to believe you both times is, of course, the trick, but the strategy is there.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure Tony and Laura's "evidence" to lynch me was seen as bullshit by everyone, which made it very easy for the wolves to vote against Tony the next day. (That, and of course sniping.)

Stop bitching about not reading the rules. Jesus christ, if you don't read the posts that the guy who's making the game writes, then what the hell are you doing playing a forums game that involves poring over every single letter of a post that everyone ELSE makes? Maybe in a face to face game it could be argued that that was a cheap trick, because you'd have to be thinking about it right then when he explained the parameters, but in a forums game where you can read his post over and over again, you should be looking for clues. Hell, in my death message I went back and reread it because I had thought the machines were on freeplay in his initial flavor text.

Maybe that was the problem, you guys killed off the only person who cared to look in the first day. :p

Umm, wrong. Not revealing a role would indicate that you didn't count right when counting the human players. A role should have been in the original rules, or disclosed as soon as you realized the mistake. A host's job is to make the game fair and fun the the players, not sit back and say, "Oh well, it's my game and I'll do what the heck I want, and not fix my mistakes."

It's impossible to read, or reread the rules when the complete rules WEREN'T POSTED.


That's why we got rid of you two quickly. :-P You two were right on our trail; but the time-post mess up gave us the lucky break we needed.


I'll host the next game.

I was being sarcastic with this quote.  :wink:  Of course people are supposed to read the rules.  Don't take my tone as anything other than light-hearted in this comment.  I am humble in my incompetence in not realizing the 7 pm time.

But I still think you have 0 arguement when it comes to Zeppy being able to just come out of the blue as a character role that was never discussed in the rules.  But hey, at this point it's a dead horse.  I personally appreciate you hosting the game, as your writeups and flavor text were quite humorous.  The last thing I want is a situation where we scare the GM off the boards like we did with the previous one =P heh.

You'd have a point... save for the fact that there was no mistake. You obviously didn't read the rules at all (why else were you constantly whinging about 'oh, we play it this way' or 'wah, night orders are due too early'), and as such, I feel zero remorse for the fact that you were set up to be punished for it. I only regret that it hadn't happened.

Vanilla games are boring crap that should die in a fire. Welcome to the big leagues, where the game is perfectly fair, AND the moderator can do whatever they want. :P



Enjoy. I have no interest in playing a game you're hosting.

What's a vanilla game?  Does that make this a chocolate game?

Well, what can I say?  I spoke with "Mighty Florist" a bit in person today and I understand a bit more his thinking on the whole Zeppy being an additional role thing.  I don't know how many of us were prepared for a "non-vanilla" format game, but it's certainly something to keep in mind for the future.  Maybe there should be a disclaimer, heh =P "The supplied rules do not disallow what they do not explicitly state is disallowed, and do not necessarily allow that which is not stated as allowed.  They should be treated as guidelines for the game's play."

Anyhow, sorry we're scaring the GMs off.  I myself have never played these kinds of games other than DMN's and the one at Denny's that one night; and that's more than others have.  You can't really take a position of "those damn amateurs" because I think many participants stated their unfamiliarity with the game right at the get-go.  If you want a fun board gaming community it's going to take some hammering and soldering to work things out.  I don't think anyone here is attacking the GMs decisions, but some of us are certainly confused or questioning, and I think there is a sense of egoism and superiority that the GMs have expressed in the light of such questions that can result in unneeded confrontation.  

So, yeah.  Personally, I had fun, and think I'll have more fun as I get used to the game in principle and used to the mannerisms of different GMs.  

BlueSS, I'll definitely play your game when you make it, and I apologize in advance for any criticisms I hand your way in the end which may cause irritation.

you guys are fucking stupid for arguing over small shit like this. who fucking cares. it's a fun game, right?

Thanks for adding constructive input to the conversation.  Yes, it is a game.  And some people like to discuss things they disagree on and don't take it 100% seriously when they do.  Only person I see going overboard (ie using strong adjectives or sweeping generalizations) is you, so far.

Wait a second, your comment doesn't make any sense; yes I know you've "changed" but I'm certain the aspect of your personality that would support arguements for arguement's sake isn't 100% gone.

QFT.

Even though I stated displeasure in some of the rules, I treat it just as a game and it would be ridiculous to take any hard feelings outside the game.

Just like Arkaaito, I have never played a game were rules were (un?)intentionally left out; and I'm sure the majority of us here haven't either.
To be honest, if DJ was trying to do a "chocolate" game, he should have expected and just shrugged off resistance to the rules - since we weren't expecting it at all and he should have known we'd be at least partially upset/displeased with the unexpected change.

It's just a game though. I hope DJ isn't going to hold and grudges or anything over it. I know I'm not. :-)

"changed"? when did i do this hahaha. you guys are the ones being anal here anyway. boy, swell forum guys. ps gg

 :?  Well I guess I don't understand what you and BlueSS supposedly talked about that allowed you the capability to return to this site, then.  I figured this was because you had decided to change your online habits.

he let me back because i'm his favourite poster.

:roll:  ::Hands him a shovel:: Keep digging, dude.