So, I found out who is responsible for ripping out the modding and will deal with this accordingly.

-----------------------------  

To the person responsible,

If you are reading this, be ready to talk the next time we meet. This is a serious offense, and I take these issues seriously. You are messing with my time, money, and effort and I will not tolerate this kind of action.

Thank you.

Is the ITG marquee going to be decorated with a human skull next time I visit there?  LOL's 

Haha, I don't think so. 

I know the guys who's been doing this personally, so I'm just going to speak to him. I promise there will be no blood, guts, or skulls. 

Requesting that a pack I compiled of all the hardest DDR boss songs (19 in total) be put on the machine.

The only problem is that they are in DDR's rating system. I have a general idea of how hard they are and can rerate them, but are most of the songs on the machine rated by how hard they are with cmods or without cmods? Most of these songs are only 10-13 on the ITG scale with cmods but without them they are much harder.

Oh, and there may be some duplicates since there are some DDR songs on the machine already, but most of the songs are from DDR X and later (which aren't on the machine). I will post a link to the pack after I update the ratings.

My own personal assumption (emphasis on how wrong I could be) is that a chart is, no matter what, rated for the density and the amount of effort put into the song physically, not so much for the reading of the chart itself.

Of course, only because it takes me a hell of a brain to read Under Arrest, a 10 (physical-wise).
I hope this will be somewhat helpful.

Thanks, I agree that a chart should probably be rated as if you can read everything fine. Pack should be up soon.

Fellow forum members or people not on the site?

He is a fellow forum member, but I just got a private message from him saying that 3 others were involved as well and that he isn't going to ACME anymore.  

Well only problem is that there are 3 others who are involved with removing the modding and messing around with the stage when they aren't permitted too. I suppose that we will cross that bridge when we get to it. 

---------------------------

To the rest of you who has an issue with modding,

I understand that some people dislike the modding, but the majority do. When people who cannot pass a 10 tell me that the modding isn't working and people who can pass 17's tell me that the stage is awesome, I'm more inclined to believe those who can pass 17's.

A friend of mine put modding in the best light, he said that modding is a way to keep up with this game and how it is evolving.

The ITG community isn't stuck playing ITG 1 and 2 anymore. Players like myself are trying to help my community move forward into the future of this game, into Pendulum, into Sharpnelstreamz, into the many step charts that are being released that demand more than what this game used too. There is a very small portion of players in our community that dislike this idea of modding, but ask yourself this... when was the last time you've passed or even attempted a 15?

The way I see it, when the stage is modded, I'm being inclusive of all playstyles. When the stage isn't modded we are leaving out a portion of players that want to be playing 240 BPM 17's and 18's that last 5-7 minutes at 180 BPM, etc. Even when the stage is modded, players who want to play lower level songs or doubles are still able too, and I can assure you I test accordingly. You simply cannot play charts that are 200+ BPM on recess stock pads, however on modded pads everyone can play any chart at any BPM.

For instance, we have a newcomer into ACME that loves the way our stage is modded. At the moment, he is working on 9's and 10's and plays them well. Abbye and I both play 10's and 11's to practice FA and attempt quads. It just doesn't make sense to say that modded stages don't work for players who want to FA or play 9's, 10's, etc. The way I see it, instead of immediately blaming the stage for your ITG shortcomings, check yourself and be honest with your capability.

The reality is, modding does require a lot of upkeep. So, there are times when the modding needs to be adjusted and I do my best to keep up with keeping the stage at its peak.

The principle of the matter is that there are people going into the stage without having permission, they shouldn't be doing this, period. If you happen to go into the stage, at least have the decency to tell me what you did because I have no idea how much modding you've removed. Without knowing what's been done, I have to test and retest the stage to return it back to the way I've left it and that takes a lot of time and money.

Please be respectful of the time, effort, and money that Abbye and I have put into modding the stage for the majority. As I said before, please feel free to talk to me personally about the stage if you have a problem with the way its modded, I'd be more than happy to accommodate.

Thank you!

My opinion carries less weight, because I don't play at Acme. However, looking back over the posts from a year ago when modding was proposed, I don't see "the vast majority" in favor of it. I see a couple of people (mostly people who play >15's regularly) that were very passionate about having it, but then there was everyone else who seemed very skeptical or "meh" about it.

I agree with your (or Gerrak's?) statement that you have to keep up with the evolving nature of this game. But it always makes me laugh inside a bit when I see how far things have been taken. It's like someone trying desperately to overclock an NES to run SNES-level graphics. Some of you are pushing the machine to do things the hardware was physically never designed to handle. My personal opinion is that when you start modifying the hardware and software to perfect your game on such a granular level, what game are you even playing anymore? Are your achievements even comparable with anyone else NOT playing at Acme?

Anyways, I can only speak for a brief personal experience on Tom's foam modded pad, but they felt squishy and messed with my PA a bit. It's certainly something I'd adapt to in a short amount of time if I regularly played on it, but coming from my stock machine to his was a bit jarring.

One last thought: It's terrible to disregard the opinions of others just because they can't play at the same high level as you. Just because they can't do 17's doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about. Certain people prefer different things with the game. A doubles player is looking for something a lot different than a stamina player. Imagine if the stamina players got the panels polished to make them slicker, allowing them to slide over the pads better? Great for high-intensity bar users, terrible for noobs, no bar players, or doubles people. This might sound like a ridiculous example, but I think it helps get my point across. I certainly can't do 17's, but I've been active in the DDR community since 2002 and it'd piss me off if someone disregarded my opinions because I'm not "hardcore" enough by their standards.

Sorry to inturupt this discussion But my requested pack is up and can be downloaded here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/q0c2828gc3xc62p/DDR+BOSS+SONGS.zip

Message me if there are any problems!

Double is marginally harder on modded pads, but not enough that I would do anything or complain about it. It requires a bit more focus on "pad presence" than if it's recessed and you can naturally feel it. As a doubles player, I do notice the difference. That being said, I really do like what modding does for single play and almost everyone plays single. Besides, an hour or two on modded pads is all you need to even get used to it on double.

From what I've heard, the Acme pads have an issue of over sensitivity. Again, I haven't been there in ages, but I am curious if this is true.

That's one reason I will not mod my pads like this. I'm a 240lb no bar player. If the pads are hyper sensitive due to the tape and foam, or whatever, then I could be triggering arrows that I'm not even touching due to vibrations being carried through the frame. I've seen this on plenty of machines I've worked on in the past and it's incredibly hard for most to diagnose, because the issue seems so incredibly random.

Again, as I said in my statement above; What is great for one set of players, could actually be detrimental to another. People who've played on my machine know I keep the pads extremely well maintained and sensitive, but I do so without pushing them into the hyper sensitive range. It's a balance that I think most find completely reasonable once they've actually played on my cabinet.

Without making a definitive yay or nay on modding, I must admit that your pads feel nicer than one would expect. I was able to do a couple runs at 180 on those, and that's really pushing it for me. (Technically 48th runs in Chronon, but it's equivalent speed wise)

@ Suko,

I would never disregard anyone's opinion about the game especially when it comes to a public cabinet. My point was, when players like myself can near quad most 10's and 11's I play on the ACME stage, is told that the stage is messed up and broken by someone who can hardly pass 10's, it is hard for me to take that person seriously.

I listen to players who know how to FA/Quad 9's, 10's, 11's, etc., and I listen to players who are able to pass 17's and 18's. I take there opinions about the stage to heart and make adjustments accordingly. People I don't listen to are players who play 1-2 times a month and can't full combo 9's because their feedback isn't as strong as those who are able to quad charts and pass 18's.

The fact of the matter is, everyone is still able to play 9's and 10's. I didn't mod the stage so only 15's+ are playable, that wouldn't be fair. I've modded the stage so people of all levels can enjoy this game and grow.

Take for example, our mini-monster Orange Chicken. When I met him, he played DDR and couldn't even pass a 10 on ITG. Now, in such a short period of time, he's passing 15's on a regular basis and working on passing 16's. When I started playing on a stock stage, it took me 2 years to pass a 16! I wish I had the opportunity to play on a flushed stage for all the years I've been involved in ITG. Not to mention, Bauregard one of our new comers to this forum. When I met him, he could hardly play 11's, and now he is passing 15's and pushing 16's! This is all within a year...

A new comer to ACME, Tmangamer is in love with how are stage is modded. He plays 9's and 10's and I only see him becoming beast with more practice.

We are the only ITG community to resist this change. Our Northern friends in Canada have adapted to modded stages long before us, same with our Mid-West friends, and our East Coast rivals.

I understand that the majority didn't seem to want the stage modded on the forums, but I speak with a lot of people outside of the forums. I see people who play at ACME often and listen to their feedback and take them seriously. The majority now play at ACME and love how the stage is functioning. There is small minority who still haven't voiced their opinion to me. I would love to hear what they would have to say.

I've started playing on a stock recessed stage like rest of us. I started playing in 2004 on DDR Extreme and worked my way up the ladder. Unlike some of us in the community, I wanted to grow and become a better, faster, and stronger player. I wanted to keep up with the Mid-west ITG community, I wanted to keep up with the East Coast, and that is why I decided to mod the stage. I know I didn't get everyone consent but I receive the "green light" from Bill and the "green light" from the most avid frequent players at ACME.

Just because you aren't able to do a 17 doesn't mean you aren't a hardcore player. I respect everyone's game because we aren't all on the same level. I obviously haven't met you in person, and would love to someday. But, I don't want you to judge what I do solely based on what is said on the forums. My work is done outside the forums on a face to face basis.

APHR people like you are the reason I dont want to be part of the itg community.  Too much drama dude

  didn't want you to be in the community anyways.  

Joking aside...

I just feel like I have to defend everything on these forums. You guys don't know who I am and honestly, I'm sick of the criticism. Say what you'd like, but the bottom line is the stage will stay super flush and I'm going to continue to do what I do.

 

I know you feel attacked by the community right now; it really sucks when you're spending your time and effort trying to make our communal machine better. It sucks to be subverted, and I hope that future concerns about the pads will be raised through discussion instead of by directly changing the pads without permission. It's a real lousy feeling when you put effort into helping people and they get mad at you for it.

That said, please don't shut down legitimate concerns people might have about the pads. If people have concerns about pad quality, it's only fair to listen.

This is not my fight, so this is the last observation I will make.

You claim to listen to the better players and that "I see people who play at ACME often and listen to their feedback and take them seriously. The majority now play at ACME and love how the stage is functioning." Essentially you're speaking on behalf of people who don't wish to spend the time, energy, or effort to make an account and discuss this on the forums. If that is the case, there's nothing stopping you (or me, or Ben, or anyone) from claiming everyone and their dog wants "X" and we're going to do it because I heard it straight from all of them. If we want this to be legitimate, people need to voice their concerns or approval at a place where their voice can be seen and noted for all to see. Otherwise, we're just playing a game of he said she said.

For all these people you say "love it", I am hearing rumblings (through private channels and in-person talks) about quite a few people who don't. And even if the people who don't like it only make up 20%, I still feel it is best to try and accommodate everyone. Have you considered modding one side and leaving the other stock? This would give everyone the chance to enjoy the machine equally? (Except for doubles players, but nobody cares about them, am I right?)

That said, it is important for those who would like to see less modified, or stock pads at Acme to speak up in a civilized manner about it here, where it can be discussed. Complaining about it at events to other players is one thing, but as I said above, it needs to be spoken about in public. Chris, you do seem to get defensive about things extremely quickly. I don't know why, but this makes discussion difficult and probably intimidates others from bringing up concerns. Try and understand that a discussion about ITG pads in a public location are not attacks against you on a personal level (at least they shouldn't be).

One last thing: Have you tried watching heavier players play moderately hard charts on your modded pads? I'm seriously wondering if they're hypersensitive or not. No offense to Orange Chicken, but he's probably the lightest player around, so I doubt flush modded pads that are overly sensitive would cause any problem for him at all. If most of the people who love it are <200 lbs and baring, then that is a lot less weight on the pads than someone like me, who is 240lbs and no bar.

...I do.   

I would rather have both sides modded or both sides not modded as a doubles player but as you pointed out, that obviously makes sense.

On the heavier player note, I think I have the most say out of everyone on these forums. I'm just probably the heaviest player at 250ish. For the most part, I don't deal with sticky panels or ghost mines (I actually did a couple years back) so the sensitivity seems fine in all honesty. The problem is not for heavy players, it is for tall players. See, I'm 6'3'' pushing 6'4'' if I actually decide to stand up straight (it's hard because I've grown accustomed to having to look down to talk to a lot of people all my life lol). The bar is ALREADY too short for me to use effectively and naturally. Sure I CAN use it, but I look a bit awkward and put a fair amount of weight strain on my arms as opposed to it just being a balancing tool. Modded pads, while seemingly insignificant, or THAT much less recessed putting me THAT much higher on the pad making the bar shorter in comparison.

I don't play that much. It's not my machine. I would never mess with an already modded pad. I understand the benefits and realize I am only one voice in a community, and an inactive voice at that, but bar height is a serious concern for tall players. That's my only complaint, but I'm trying to be supes passive. It's not that big of a deal.

I may be repeating and bringing up old arguments or just have nothing relevant to say at all but I will try to state what I see as true and observed. I will try not to lean or bias my message in anyway. I will do my best to keep this neutral.

So far, from what it seems, as a very tiny little bar-player, I can understand that the modded pads may not be so much a problem for me as it would be for a heavier player. I, can still however, sometimes notice oversensitivity. There are also instances where the pad may seem unfit for doubles, I sometimes do it for fun, too, and I notice that the inner side panels don't react as well.
This, as I can see, is one proposed argument.

However, the main issue APHR is trying to deal with is that someone (or few), without at least even notifying anybody, is messing around with the pads' modding. This makes it difficult for APHR to adjust it properly, seeing as there is no easy way of measuring the amount of modding he puts on the pads.

That is what I find concerning, and also that it seems you are all so angry and defensive about many things.

I know APHR is just doing his best to keep the pads maintained in order to keep up with this "evolving gameplay," and at the same time, there are those who find that the upgrades make it difficult for them to enjoy songs that aren't total 200BPM 16th runs.

What I'm hoping APHR can understand of everyone is that the pads may be modded way too specifically, so that it only fits the "elite minority." I agree on the idea that it may even be enhancing our gameplay and can almost be deemed as cheating to many, but I'll say that that's what's necessary for this new type of ITG-playing. The players whom I notice are not that good at the game should also have their opinions and suggestions of the pad considered, but even then, you and I have both noticed that they enjoy the pads the way they are, and they aren't aiming for even 13s.

What I'm hoping everyone can understand of APHR is that he, again, is just doing his best to maintain the pads, even if it's the way that he thinks is the best, and I notice many 9s and 10s players also pretty much love the pads, being good at it or not. APHR's attitude is that he wants to see that players can improve dramatically and play songs hard as shit like he can someday, and that's probably why, when he defends with the premise that beasting players cannot play on recessed pads as well, it seems as though he's shunning and insulting those who are not yet considered "monsters." Please take into consideration that APHR is shooting for the stars, while the majority of the players are still enjoying their time on earth.

APHR, you have good intentions with modding the pads, and everyone else, it's fair to say that the pads may be way too specifically modded for the extremely difficult chart players.
I am hoping there is just a way for APHR to compromise so that the pads work for anybody, of any size, age, skill level, anything, and that you would all be able to formally and civilly suggest it.

I'm hoping this is just a friendly discussion about suitability of the pads to all players, and not a raging war between the recessed and the flushed.

We players can keep debating on whether the pads should be modded or default, that's completely fair. The one thing I see APHR trying to mainly focus on is the fact that someone's tampering the pads without permission or at least even letting others know of the update.

Kevin are you making an ITG pun?

I have no clue, I just used a random cliche lol.

I have to say I'm sure most of us here are growing tired of this debate between how the pads should be modded. It is one thing to have a friendly discussion but I feel some of it has been blown out of proportion. APHR is trying to make sure that everyone can enjoy the game no matter what the persons play style is. For me, it doesn't matter if a person likes to play 9's all day or if a person wants to stream away on 15's or 16's. You play what you want to play. Who am I to say anything otherwise.

I understand the pads can never be fool proof or suit a persons preference a 100%. APHR cares about making people happy and does try to accommodate. It proves difficult when the pads goes awry and the remedy we used once before may not work again.

I really hope that people can understand why it was frustrating when the pad was being tampered with after time was spent working on it.

We are a community here, I enjoy playing with other ITG players and enjoy getting to know other people. Albeit, we have a crazy community but we should try to respect each other and try to have some fun

I agree with Suko, we need to have this space be available for people to feel like they can speak up, no matter how one plays the game.