....?

It's not clear (at least to me) what it is you're asking or confused about. Try using some words.

Bill, please let me know when/what you find out regarding this. When I contact Andamiro about replacement panels they were $50 a piece. WAY too expensive for me, but if you find a better deal, I would be interested in replacement arrows for my machine, too.

Thanks!

My guess is that it's a "sticky arrow". ITG the arrow panels don't light up when depressed, they light up only when you are supposed to hit the arrow, so during a song this might not be noticeable. Next time you're in the menu or something (where you can activate the lights under the arrows by pressing it), try stepping on the arrow forcefully, repeatedly and quickly. See if it stays lit longer than it should.

Big guys like you and I will generally encounter "sticky arrows". This is something most players will not experience (especially with the prevalent bar usage these days). Due to my weight/size/whatever, when I play I put more pressure on the panel and have a greater chance of causing the bracket that depresses the sensor to get stuck int he down position, not allowing successive hits to be made until the bracket gets knocked loose again.

Based off your description, I can't say this is the issue with 100% certainty, but I'd bet that if it's only happening to you, then that could certainly be a possibility.

Solution: WD40 that mothaf*cker! This is what I do on my cab. Just lube the area where the screws meet the brackets and make sure they're tight (with the spacers installed). If they're loose, this can let the bracket wobble more than it should and it can get stuck at off angles.

Can't speak for Bill's techs, but I definitely have never lubricated the sensor brackets. Adjusting the tightness of the brackets so they stay in place (if they slide too far out, the force doesn't go to the sensor anymore), but don't stick at all when jiggled (obviously one way for the bracket to get stuck holding the sensor down) is the first thing I do when people are having pad issues, and most of the time, that fixes it, so a little bit of WD40 on tighter brackets may make things a little more consistent.

I'm also tempted to do a thorough check on all of the sensors and move them around them according to sensitivity, hopefully making the inner sensors a little less sensitive than they are now. Unlike DDR sensors (which weaken over time), ITG sensors seem to get more sensitive over time, and the inner sensors are starting to get absurdly responsive; during Sakuracon, in the I/O test menu, I could pretty consistently trigger 2 arrows on the 2p side by stepping a little harder than normal on the center panel; the bouncy floor made it easier to do that, but I've definitely hit mines by stepping on the center panel at Acme as well). The inner sensors tend to be the most worn (and therefore the most sensitive) and they are the most likely to be triggered unintentionally (closer to the other arrows, adjacent to the center panel, plus players tend to step close to the center), so having them be as sensitive as they are now is probably starting to be a bad thing.

Channelbeat (in China / Hong Kong) sells the middle yellow PIU panels for $9 each, and DDR arrows for $12 each, but aren't any help with real ITG arrows.  I mention this because those were the panel ideas I heard people suggest.

The DDR arrows are $50 each at Betson.  Ew.  But I guess they're probably one of the few official US sources.

Ghost hits suck. Easy way to check for this is to go into the IO test menu and jump up and down on the center metal panel. See if any of the sensors trigger. If they do, it's too sensitive.

And I know some of you LOVE having hyper-sensitivity, but you got to remember there's people like me out there who, just through my size, can accidentally trigger these "ghost hits" when we are stomping on other arrows.

Properly keeping sensors in check means riding a fine line between hypo and hyper sensitivity.

I don't think Chris was necessarily yelling at Bill.

Oh boy, had a tech there today, said all the sensors seemed okay in test, but yes, we know better.  After he worked on it, a few good players were arrow smashing, he asked them if they could find any prblems, and they told him it was playing great.

Bullshit!  We know some sensors are starting to get janky.  To our more knowledgeable players, if you could list which sensors, at which arrows, are bad so we can attack it.  Or if Tony still has some new ones, he is also welcome to take a stab at it.  Getting real confusing reading all this, as it seems there are on the edge sensors everywhere.

Did not gte a chance to call Andamiro yet for new panel prices, will try to get that done tomorrow.  :-)

Thanks Bill, Tony, and Bill's techs.

Appreciate the effort~

I still have 2 spare DDR sensors somewhere in the trunk of my car, I believe, so I can do a little bit of work on the fly, as long as I remember to bring a knife and electrical tape. Speaking of which, of the sensors that have been replaced with DDR sensors (there are only a few), most have been swapped out correctly (cut the clip off the old and splice it onto the new), but at least one was cut below the clip, so now it's directly spliced into the lead wire and there's no clip. It still works, and that particular sensor hasn't been a problem, but if it does ever need to be replaced, it'll be a little more annoying than normal, plus it can't easily be rotated to other slots, since it can't be unclipped anymore (I did move this sensor during Sakuracon - dedicab lead wires are extremely long in general, so snipping the zip tie that bundles all of the sensor leads gave me enough wire to work with to swap two of the sensors without actually needing to cut and re-splice). The sensor in question has been that way as long as I've been opening up the machine, so there's probably no way to know who made the mistake, but it's definitely something to make sure the techs know not to do.

When I was checking into details about my "it's really a Pump GX cab" post, I did stumble on a parts reseller in Hong Kong that was selling supposedly-official Pump panels for $32.50 apiece (and supposedly-official Andamiro/Konami sensors for like $10 apiece, with a bulk discount for ordering 16+), but the panels were on back order, so it's hard to say if that would amount to anything. If this seems like a potentially useful lead, I can go dig up their info again.

Allan and our tech are working on the ITG as I type this..  Hopefully will be better by the end of that session.  Nice to know Tony also has some sensors in case we miss one. 
We actually replaced a couple this morning, but then Allan called and reoprted more issues, so back at it once again.  :-)

Update,

I personally just spent a few hours on ITG pad work today.  All new sensors in the 5 arrows that were getting complaints.  Seems to trigger and release real well.  Also, for grins and giggles, we thought it would not be a bad idea to exchange the stage I/O board, so that has alos been done just in case it was causing problems.
If it is still messed up after this, I would have to wonder if maybe the timing windows in the program, or something else weird could be happening.

Hope it checks out okay tonight.

Bill

Hey guys just letting you know that the arrows are still janky. Was just there playing a few sets but still giving way offs especially when you hit the janky arrows in succession, I.e. up twice.

Yeah, Abbye and I were there at acme helping the tech test the arrows for about two hours, it worked well for about three sets and then started giving us trouble.

Again, it's the up and right arrow on the player 1 side And up and left arrow on the player 2 side. We really hope this gets fixed, we are practically there everyday and its not playable for players trying to score.

Thanks,

Chris and Abbye

I've thinking, could it be that the pads aren't the issue but the timing window or something in the programming? I remember playing last Friday afternoon, around 3 and the machine was playing flawlessly. However, Michael said the pads started to act up that night. I was told that a tech accidentally put 50+ credits into the machine and reset it over the weekend, thus having the machine revert back to having a timer, etc.

Could that have caused this problem?

We came back on Sunday to play and the machine was acting really strange, timers were activated and the scroll speed in the song selection menu was super slow. We came back on monday hoping the machine was fixed, but unfortunately the pads started giving errors. Since then its been pretty messed up.

Just a thought...

Sticky arrows.

Bill, have you tried lubing the hell out of the brackets? That works on my machine.

Just saying, the down arrow on the player 1 side is busted now too.

Yes, I did he dirty evil, and used WD40 yesterday.  I know it attracts dirt down the road, but hey, in desperate moments it's worth a try.

I am truely flabergasted with this whole thing.  Something must have happened when this got moved back from Sakuracon, as it has not been the same since.  Of course, there would be that occasional simple pad issue.  Now, all the suddem, with dozens of sensors replaced, it works intermittently it seems.

Not sure WTF is going on.

BTW, did order today a new set of the actuators for the sensors.  The bushings are getting worn.  Also, BTW, most of the worn bushings got exchanged with the PIU cabinet, to see if that would make a difference.  crazy, we have tried everything.

Thanks for being diligent with trying to fix this issue, but it seems like an issue with the programming.

Maybe Tony should take a look to see if he can do anything.

The pad issues are definitely pad issues and not software issues - 1p down, for example, is very clearly a sticky arrow; I managed to jam it in place for about 30 seconds on Thursday when I was trying to figure out the issue myself, and as soon as I jiggled it a little, it came unstuck.

I'm headed down to Acme fairly soon, and will try to restore the scroll speed to normal, as well as do what I can about the remaining sensor issues.

As for what's going on overall, something may well have happened while the machine was being moved after Sakuracon that's making things worse, but, in general, I think this was inevitable. Personally, I rotate sensors, rather than replace them when I can (it's faster, cheaper, fixes most issues, and can be helpful in diagnosing more severe problems), so a lot of the sensors are far from new, and it's likely that a good number of them just got to the point that they aren't usable anymore at approximately the same time. I spent Sakuracon weekend trying to triage similar issues - the majority of the sensors significantly more sensitive now than when they were new and some can be triggered with only an ounce or two of weight placed over them (when they should take ~15 pounds). For example, while I was diagnosing stuff on Thursday, we observed that 1p right can be triggered if you step on 2p left with just a little extra force and for awhile, 2p up could be triggered by stepping on the center panel during Sakuracon; they're just so sensitive that the vibrations caused by playing causes the sensors to fire off ghost steps.

Just got back!
- ITG was out of order (but Tony's heading there soon anyway).
- Some of the PIU panels seemed less than great, but possible some of it was just down to me sucking today. I did notice one of the screws on the the metal panel between the 1P UL/DL arrows was loose so I screwed that in as best as I could without any tools.
- PIU 1P bar is getting loose/squeaky again.
- House of the Dead 2 is really damned loud. It's two machines away from Pump, but louder than the Terminator game, which is right next to Pump. Suffer like G did?

lol hotd is loud again?

Who keeps turningt that HOD 2 up?  Obnoxious!

At Tony,  We have replaced about 20 plus sensors over the last few days.  Now check this out.  The new sensors are much more sensitive than new sensors have been in the past.  They look the same, and are coming from konami, so not knock off sensors.  But I suspect they changed something in the manufacturing process, as they are very sensitive when new now.  It used to be the opposite, they sometimes required too much pressure when brand new.

Awesome, thanks Tony for taking a look and fixing what you can. Keep us posted, let us know if there are any improvements with the machine.

So the first problem i'm hearing is Konami sensors in an Andamiro cab doesn't seem like the best solution. Don't they have different molex connectors?
also having over sensitive sensors is very bad. We ordered a full new set from arcade spare parts for our machine and and only got 4 over sensitive ones. Those are fairly unusable.