gonna miss u buddy

edit: how are we gonna be able to talk to you about the pads now? you said you were using this thread as a means of communicating with the community (see my previous post for a critique on your brand of philanthropy); making it easy to get updates on the pads and report issues. with this crucial leyline of communication broken how will we be able to get to you quickly? perhaps someone eslse should maintain the pads now...

On a match lighter note, who wants to play sets at Acme sometime soon? I've been back in Washington for 2 months and haven't seen any of you guys. Admittedly I haven't gone as much as I would like, but I've been a few times. I just seem to come at the wrong times. It's always nice to actually play with people, especially since y'all are much better than me and I could work to push myself better

You've been back for two months?! How come you didn't show up for SPERGIN?

8/7/14 NEVAR FORGET

I had a date actually. I debated rescheduling, but seeing that I've been single for a year romance trumped dance games. Sorry

People, just stop. Please.
You're adults. Quit the personal attacks.

It does kind of come across like he didn't like a good number of people questioning his choice on pad decisions, so he just left. Now, even if the majority DON'T want it like that, how will he ever know?

i think a direct refutation of my points would be fair, as none of the people involved on the other side of the debate have really said anything other than "i do what i want yolo", which i don't think is quite the rebuttal that anyone on any side of this debate deserves.

behavior can reflect upon an individual: does that make a critique of their behavior/opinions personal attack? i think it's important to identify what constitutes a personal attack. it's also worth nothing that the existence of personal attacks within a post should not be used as a free pass to dismiss  legitimate discourse altogether, that's just intellectually lazy and is bad form. some of my posts contain personal attacks, some don't. just some food for thought.

I know I have been out of the discussion for the most part. I have to mention I think APHR has done an awesome job at maintaining the stage and working with other people and their suggestions with the pads. Having said that, is it reasonable to completely remove all the work done over the year because a few people on the forums hate the stage? Especially when those who do play there often perfer the flushed stage. If people are intimidated to speak to APHR how is he to know your concerns or if you think otherwise.

APHR has been doing his best to listen to other people and their concerns over the past year. I know that Iori and a few people on the forums have expressed concerns over powder usage and flushed stages. In terms of the modifications done to the stage, we as community decided together by majority vote to flush the stage. We discussed doing this over the forums a year ago. I understand that not everyone that plays uses this forum. It is not that we are excluding causal players from having their voice heard it was matter of those who play more frequently chose to speak up more about how they felt with the pads being flushed. Keeping that in mind I don't know how many times APHR would ask any player that he would see playing at ACME and on the forums, causal or not, how the stage is functioning. If the answer was anything than good he would do whatever he could to remedy the situation. Often times driving 40 mins to go the day of or as soon as possible to fix the problem, choosing to do this because he wanted to help the community as much as possible.

We all know that we cannot make everyone happy when comes to modifying a public cabinet. He does his best to listen and act upon requests and works with what he has. Lets remember that Bill the owner of the cabinet has given APHR the responsibility as well as to be the person in charge to mod and maintain. Note, it doesn't mean that he does what he wants.

As for the powder debate. We can all have our opinions about it. However, I have mentioned and APHR has mentioned we take full responsibility of removing the powder when we aren't using the stage. As I would expect other players who use powder to do the same. We take the complaints seriously and correct them as soon as possible. We recognize that this isn't our machine.

APHR tries and continues to try to listen to all types of players. From casual players to the regulars of the community, but when every word he says is dissected, critiqued and scrutinized  how do you expect somebody to stick around? When someone like Iori takes a quote from APHR like, "FRIENDSHIP" and decides to start an argument, why is this necessary?

Not that he abandoning his responsibility (Do mind that he is doing this with his own money and time), he is choosing to remove himself from this forum alone due to the excessive amounts of toxic. He will still be working and maintaining the pads. There are frequent players, myself included that use these forums who will keep APHR updated and will report any issues with the stage to him.

As APHR has asked and suggested, instead of criticizing the stage from behind a keyboard, why not come out when we are there at ACME and work with us to make the stage playable for you.

So I ask you, Iori241, Happy Redneck, QQQ, Kevin DDR, shakesoda, and those who criticize APHR's work to come meet us at ACME and actually help us test the stage so it can work for you as well as those who like it flushed. You have to recognize that
for every player who dislikes a flushed stage there are players who do like it.

I dont even live in washington.  Why does anybody care about my opinion lmao

I would very much like to see a tally that backs up that figure.

This is very fair. I think that we should really seriously consider the vote on flushed/unflushed stage.

Although, I am a little saddened because I'm too accustomed to these heavily-modded pads, and I will never do well on stock/recessed pads. I must adapt though.

We can at the least consider everyone's opinion.

Will this end this raging war?

I just want to point out that not flush does not necessarily equal stock.  There are plenty of ways to mod pads, running the full spectrum from stock to completely flush.

Is there a point just good enough to play really hard stuff and recessed enough?

Also, as a side note, I still don't really know all of the benefits of recessed pads, so I'd like someone to politely explain their rationale for wanting recessed pads. I can't stand DDR pads though. I think it helps you get a better feel, but I'd like to hear more. I'm very curious.

Devil's advocate because I really don't mind flushed pads, but since you asked I'll give somewhat of an answer.

Most people don't like the diminished "pad presence", or ability to know exactly where you are without looking at your feet. Since it is harder to feel flushed versus recessed, it definitely takes some getting used to. While not a major problem in singles as you tend to be fairly stationary, this does add a new learning curve in double

This next one seems nitpicky, but tall people DO exist. Any and all mods to put me higher on the stage, even by a few millimeters, makes the bar THAT much shorter proportionally. At 5'4'' - 6'0'', this isn't a problem. I'm 6'3''. Suko doesn't play at Acme, but he is 6'7'' I believe (or something very close to that). He is more adamant about recessed pads because height is a big concern for him if he ever vaguely wants to pretend to touch a bar, though admittedly his no bar technique is top notch.


Again, this is devil's advocate. I've played on janky pads and smooth butter. I've played on over sensitive and under sensitive. I've played on dedicab and upgrade. I've played on flush and recessed. I adapt. I'm fine. Just pointing out there are real reasons other than complaining for complaining sake.



Also, anyone playing this weekend? I feel like dancing it up, pushing limits, and killing myself at Acme soon. I need to get back into shape

Thanks for the answers. It's great to know more. I would like to take over modding someday and make it comfortable for everyone.

I never really thought about the tall-issue. I didn't realize that it made it so much harder to reach the bar if the pad was flushed.

I praise Suko for his no-bar skills. I want to be a no-barrer too , even in really hard stuff.

I guess for the feel of the pads argument, I'd say that I realize that it's different playing in shoes, and that I, as a sock player, can still feel the pads with my feet, but not everyone plays like I do, cheating as heck with everything as modded and handicapped as possible.

I may go to ACME, and I would be glad to meet some new players

I would like to point out that every machine which isn't modded flush will, by definition, have recessed pads. The mod-to-stock ratio is literally on the order of 1 to 100, probably less. If you want to get your own machine and mod it to suit your specific play style, by all means go ahead. But I disagree with modding a public machine to suit a minority of its users at the expense of everyone else -- especially after buying into the promises that it would be fine, and seeing firsthand that it very clearly was not.

Is it allowed to upgrade the SuperNova cabinet to run Stepmania but still keep everything DDR style, including the recessed pads? That way you can keep the DDR, and be able to treat it just as much as ITG? Or is this all too much to hope for? It's probably a pipe dream.

I would be so much more relieved if this debate wasn't as heated before.

Depends on what Bill wants and has the budget for, I suppose. I wouldn't strictly be against changing the game in the SuperNOVA cabinet, but it's a moot point anyway: I want "my" ITG dedicab back. That is, the one whose hardware is set up about the same as any other ITG dedicab, one I can play on and reasonably expect to perform the same on a different cabinet.

I would go as far as to say, the people who want the pads flush are playing a different game than the rest of us and modding "our" cabinet to do it. I would not be happy being relegated to a Betson stage because a minority of players want to take over the ITG dedicab, simple as that.

The funny thing is, I literally cannot think of a single dance gamer I socialise with who is happy about the flush modding. Seven, off the top of my head, have actively spoken against it. As far as I can tell, no one's strongly pushed back against it until recently.

For the record: I would much rather play DDR on a DDR cabinet than ITG, to be honest.

edit: i guess i don't need to address/push the issue any further since the issue is resolved.guess that's that.

What we will do is remove the modding from the ITG stage at ACME and return the stage back to pre-modding today, 8/9/2014. If there are issues with the stage after removing the modding, please contact Bill and his technicians to fix the stage. Since there is no modding left on the stage, it is no longer our responsibility to fix the stage.

It is clear that APHR and I do not have enough people who do like the stage modded speaking up on the forums and unfortunately this may exclude certain players who play at ACME often. From what we can gather on the forums, the majority on the forums are vocalizing their objection to the modded stage at ACME. So APHR and I will remove the modifications done to the stage.

We aren't trying to exclude the players who like the stage flushed or those who play in socks, but it is what the majority wants. APHR and I are trying to comply.

THE STAGE WILL RETURN TO THE ORIGINAL STATE TODAY, 8/9/2014. Please mind, that removing the modding at 5:30 PM will take roughly 5-10 minutes to complete, so plan your trip to ACME accordingly.

Hey uh Iori how did you get a screenshot from my facebook?

Also, to be clear, my stance on that whole thread was basically "Everybody is being ridiculous and I just want to make fun of all of the attitudes in the dance game community."

jesus is everywhere

NEW RULE FOR THIS THREAD.

BEFORE YOU CAN POST IN THIS THREAD AGAIN, YOU MUST REPLY TO THE ACME MODDED STAGE POLL.