The amount of people coming into a store and seeing you = 20 max.
The amount of people seeing DDR through the window = a few hundred?
Webcam on internet = totally different scale of potential visibility.

Suko, would the webcam affect your choice of going to PG or not?

I just don't like the idea of feeling like I'm being watched on TV or something.

Truman Show! 

Not in a negative way. My webcam ideas is a lot like the traffic cameras on I5. They let you see a snapshot of how good or bad traffic is, and that lets you decide which roads you want to take for your trip. This is how I see a webcam being used at arcades.

A guy like me (who lives 25 min away) can see if there's some people there who I'd like to play with, or if the place is completely dead. I know that can change in the 30 min it takes for me to get there, but I thought it would be nice to "check the traffic" at the place.

For instance; I try to avoid going to Acme at the popular times because if I'm going to drive 45+ minutes to Acme, I don't want to only play 3 sets because 8 other players are there. On the flip side, sometimes I really want to hang out with some fellow bemaniacs and knowing that a group of 4+ players are currently hanging out at PG would motivate me to go down and join them.

Does this help you understand the benefits I see in this system?

Also, if I've got the balls to dance in a window in front of a couple hundred strangers who don't give a flip about DDR, then why should I care who's watching me over the net? I post plenty of youtube videos of me playing regularly, so I guess I just don't care. It's not like I'm going to piss my pants playing HVAM or something, and if the webcam is only posting 1 still image every 3 minutes, I don't see what the big privacy issue is.

This is all probably a mute point anywho. Setting up a webcam system at an arcade, while not difficult, isn't a trivial thing either. It was just a pipe-dream suggestion that I thought I'd bring up.

Suko, you may like next feature I'm going to try to implement on the site soon... Don't want to say what it is yet until it's done though.

When I was at PG at the tournament last Saturday, only 6 unlocks were in the machine. Thanks to KevinDDR pointing out that a 7th exists, I tracked it down over here: http://www.ddronlinecommunity.com/news_posts/75

(the official website on Konami.jp doesn't have this one for some reason)

It's interesting to hear the topic of webcams discussed, because early on (before putting Extreme in the window) Rob and I strongly considered hooking up a security cam that would display the back arcade section on a monitor in the window. Sort of to say "hey, there's an arcade in here!" to random people walking by. I think Extreme does a good job of accomplishing the same goal, so the monitor idea is probably going to get ditched, especially considering the reactions from some of you guys to the webcam idea!

I'm pretty amazed by the positive reactions to the Extreme machine. It's not the prettiest, and I basically picked it up as an afterthought with the SN2 already purchased, so I didn't really know what to expect from it. Some lady down in Oregon had it in her detached apartment garage, filling almost the entire thing. She had apparently bought it in California and hauled it up there, but never really knew what to do with it. She didn't even know which version it was -- it was a mystery to me until I got there! She warned me over and over again to bring help moving the dance pads, saying she and her husband had just about killed themselves moving them in the past. I wasn't sure what the big deal was, since I had already moved the SN2 pads around pretty easily? Were the old Konami-made pads heavier? No -- it turns out she didn't know that you could detach them, and she and her husband were trying to lift the pair of pads together. Oof!

Also, one of these days I want to sit down and spend a few hours going through and cleaning all the pads, de-gunking their screws, etc, to help avoid situations like the one we had at the tournament. Sorry it has taken so long, but unfortunately I'm not allowed in the store outside of business hours and there's always someone in there who wants to play the games! I'm just going to have to pick a really dead time to do it sometime soon.

BTW, a few updates to the OP:

- Crazy Taxi is now $.50.
- Donkey Kong 3 is now original Donkey Kong
- Raiden Fighters Jet added (we put in a sticker machine also, but I don't know if this is OP worthy or if anyone on here really cares
- New hours are official! 12-8pm M-Th, 12-11pm Fri and Sat, and 12-7pm Sunday. This is not necessarily the only hours change in the cards, so if you want the place open even later then let them know. I'd love to see it hit at least 9 on weekdays, personally.

Tom & I just gave our ITG pads a completely thorough cleaning. It took about 2 hours. However, we were recording it for a ViDoc we're making on machine maintenance. If you do want to do a complete cleaning, I'd give yourself at least an hour, if not more.

Security cameras don't take much (if anything) in terms of letting people know they are being recorded; a webcam will either require a contract posted by the door ("By entering the store, you agree to have your image recorded... blah blah blah") which, of course, won't extend to minors, so any angry parent could sue or everyone who enters webcam coverage would have to sign a waiver.  A monitor up front showing a "security feed" would still qualify as a security measure even if it was used for advertising, but Bobby has already said that Extreme accomplishes the advertising.

The important distinction is publishing images of a person without their permission (especially as part of a company's marketing strategy) is a violation of their rights (a person's own "image" is defined as property they control), and while there's some back and forth on exactly what that means, the more important part is that recording images of minors unilaterally requires a legal guardian to agree if the minor is somehow the focus (and showing people playing games is pretty clearly defining those people as the focus).

Ummmmm, I think you guys might be mixing legal realms with this topic. WSU has streaming webcams setup all over campus streaming 24/7. Same with the City of Pullman. They have, on their own website no less, a streaming webcam showing the sidewalks downtown. I don't see how this is any different from a private store having a streaming webcam showing their facility. (Actually, the streaming city webcam is located inside a privately owned downtown bookstore)

A simple sign saying "Smile, You're On Camera" should be more than enough to inform a person that they're being watched. Regardless, it distresses me that our society has gotten to the point where a simple idea like this has to jump through so many legal hoops to work. Why do people feel like they need to sue over such trivial things? When did our society get this incredible sense of entitlement to everything, including being photographed? It's a webcam in an arcade, not a webcam in a porno theater. Tom and I (and numerous others) have our images on PG's site from the tournament. I was never asked for permission, but I don't really care about it either. I just don't understand this terrible fear of being "seen" by strangers.

Also, now that I think about it, anything done in a public location is considered free game. This is why people's pictures end up in tabloids doing improper stuff all the time. If they're outside a home or residence, they're fodder for the paparazzi. Also, if what Tony said is true, than any person in in the media spotlight (and there are hundreds of them each year) would be able to keep the press from releasing their images in newspapers, magazines, and TV simply by denying them permission to use "their" image. Since the press obviously still release these images, despite the subject's request to "leave them alone", obviously this law must not be true or enforced.

Note: I'm not pushing for Bobby to pursue this. I'm just having fun debating this topic. So no one take this stuff personally, alright?

A couple of things:

1. Nobody can automatically sue because their image has been used without their permission. However, if a person does not want their image used, they have every right to request that it be taken down. If their request is not honored, they are then within their rights to sue. Since Suko and Tom do not care that Pink Gorilla has pictures of them up on the tournament website, it's perfectly fine for Pink Gorilla to leave these pictures up. However, if Tom were to one day decide that he doesn't want his image readily available on the Pink Gorilla website, and were to email them requesting that it be taken down, they would be obligated to respect his request, or else face legal consequences. This law has a couple of exceptions, as mentioned below.

2. Celebrities are actually quite literally subject to different rules by virtue of being celebrities. Any image that is considered "public domain" may be used freely. This means that pictures of presidents, talk show hosts, and movie stars can show up anywhere, and said presidents, talk show hosts, and movie stars can't do anything about it.

3. Laws with regard to children are sketchy and ever-changing, thanks largely in part to Jack McClellan (more info here: http://www.wikisposure.com/Jack_McClellan), a pedophile who posted legal pictures of fully clothed prepubescent girls at public events in order to show men with similar interests where to meet said little girls. In general, it is safest not to take or post any images of young children without parental permission.

4. I am not sure how to explain your bookstore example, but city-owned public space (outdoors and indoors) is governed by very different rules than any privately owned business.

5. To address your question of why people are so afraid to be seen in public... obviously, I'm only ONE person, but here's my take:

Even twenty years ago, technology was much more limited. The most you could do is take a photo of somebody out in public. The internet was pretty limited in use, so the only thing that could happen with that photo, assuming you weren't a celebrity/person of interest, is that it could be physically handed to somebody to look at. The difference in scale from that to streaming video on the internet is astonishing! Now somebody's image can be distributed to millions of people without those people having to ever leave their houses... and anybody, including a person's boss, parent, or child can access those (often timestamped) pictures.

There are many reasons somebody wouldn't want streaming video of them playing DDR at Pink Gorilla on the internet.

1. They blew somebody/something off to be there,
2. They intentionally went at off hours to avoid lines,
3. Somebody is stalking them (laugh, but this is a legit concern.)

As a female, I don't really want any videos of me playing dance games to be publicly available on the internet. If you're wondering why, here's a video of an old acquaintance/Seattle DDR community member just *talking* about video games. Note the comments thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q40C54Ck1A

So... yeah.

Hey guys, I was having some issues with Extreme and was feeling nostalgic so I decided to swap 4th+ into the Extreme cab. Come on down and get your old-school BEMANI fix!

Does anyone have any good ideas for continuing to get the word out about the arcade? It has really died down in the past week or so and it's kinda freaking me out. I feel like there are a lot of people out there who would be excited about it if they found out, but I'm not sure what the best approach to roping them in would be.

Last weeks: UW's last week of the quarter.
This week: Finals...   

That could be contributing to the slowdown.

That was weird.....it didn't post what I said last time? anyways.....I'll be there tomorrow for sure. These past weeks have been taken over by school, but I'm on spring break. So i'm gonna come grab some nostalgia and probably a t-shirt.

I completely agree with this.  Walking down the street and being on a street-view cam is different than, "Check this out!  I'm going to be here for the next 2-3 hours!"

Old men used to attempt to pay me money to play at an arcade I went to in RI.  People used to stare at my boobs bouncing up and down.  I may be being slightly paranoid, but I'm 5' 2" and 100lbs.  I try not to be predictable and alone, if you know what I mean.

---

On a different note, I'm sad the Extreme went away so quickly!  But I suppose 4th Plus is cool too.  I know a lot of people have been busy with midterms lately, so I think that might explain the slowdown.  It'll probably pick up a lot once the weather warms up and people are just strolling by. =)

I was actually going to stop in for some extreme on Tuesday, might have to deal with it being 4th plus then.  By deal with it I mean be very excited and enthusiastically play a lot.  Awesome!

Don't worry too much, the Extreme hasn't gone far -- in fact the PCB is still sitting inside the cabinet right next to the 4th Plus PCB. I just wanted to switch it up for a bit as a sort of trial run for the 4th Plus PCB, which hasn't been route-tested at all yet. If you ever come by and want to play Extreme, and I happen to be there, I can easily just switch the connectors over and boot it up for you.

As for finals, etc, thanks to all of you for letting me know -- I had no idea! That has probably had a big effect on business. Even so, though, I'm talking less about regulars not showing up (e.g. you guys), and more about new people not discovering the place yet. I guess I had thought that the word of mouth would do wonders for the place, but so far I tend to just see the same people day after day. I'm very happy to see them, of course, but if 80% of the people who come in are friends of mine, I feel like I'm doing a bad job of really reaching anyone else.

By the way, is there any love for the original Virtual On at all around here? I found one for sale locally and was considering picking it up. I know most people prefer VOOT, but I have a good friend who brings his original Virtual On to an anime convention on the east coast and he says people line up all day to play it. That piques my interest, but I don't want to end up with another big bulky flop like Crazy Taxi!

Bobby> I'm pretty sure I'll be heading out there tomorrow to play 4th+, so yay! It'd be cool to have the option to switch back to Extreme, but I am happy with both options.

James> When are you going? Maybe I will see you there!

I won't be able to get down there for at least another week or two. I'm going out of town this weekend, and I don't know if the following weekend will be free yet. It's sad, but I haven't been to anyplace except for Evergreen for weeks now because I don't have the time to spend 1+ hour driving to and from a session of DDR or ITG.

Regarding Virtual On - Keby and I are probably the two biggest VO fans here, and I'll be honest, I just can't get into the original VO that much. I will play it once in a while, but VOOT spoiled me rotten. Playing 1 vs 1 against another person is what makes the game fun, but when it has such a limited set of moves compared to VOOT, I just get bored after 3 sets or so.

On that note, if you buy the cabinet and somehow find a way to hook it up to a PC or a 360 so that we can play VOOT on it, I will love you long time.

This is awesome.  5th mix is my favorite mix of them all, and 4th Plus is probably the closest I get to it with more songs and a choppier frame rate.  I really want to play it for nostalgia, but I love having the option to switch back to Extreme when I want to play for scores.

And I have been spreading the word!  I told two random people at a bus stop the other day.  =)

oh Sad that Crazy Taxi isn't doing well.

Ugh, hold the presses -- I got a call that 4th+ is having issues with its pad. Worse yet, I can't even get out there to fix it, because the store is closing early tonight (6:00) so the staff can go to a dodgeball game and I'm not free until a little later than that. Yeah, I'm pretty pissed right now. I hope this didn't screw up anyone's plans too badly! I can't imagine what the issue with the game could be, but I'm sure it will be easily resolved whenever I have access to the cab.

Hold the presses once again!

False alarm everyone!
I was just up at Pink gorilla playing some some SN2 and some SHMUPS.
Anyways Bobby came in about 10 minutes until PG closed, we checked the Input. Turns out 4th Mix+ is in super awesome working condition.

The person who said the pads didn't work probably just sucked a lot. As much as I hate to say that, most kids now-a-days can't time on anything 5th mix and below.

yeah I played a set of Sky High (not DJ miko's) and got 9 greats, Rock beat ( much <3), and KungFu Fighting (HuuuA!). The machine works fine, go drown in nostalgia

4th+...so good.

EDIT: dear god i have 1039 posts on this fucking forum what am i doing with my life aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

LOL.  instant win.  i stopped by there with my wife this past sunday and played on the sn2.  aside from acme, it's probably one of the most responsive pads i've played on in awhile.  if 4th+ was working i would've been there all afternoon.  i pretty much got to expert/heavy/maniac with 4th+ almost 8 years ago.